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clarkma5
Howdy everyone. Been a long time since I've done anything in user's rides because, well, I don't do a helluva lot with my car besides drive and enjoy it and keep the oil changed and gas tank full. Over the last couple years I went back to school, got my master's, moved to Washington state, bounced around a couple different living situations and am now moving from an area where I can't really work in our garage and have to park on the street to a new place where there's work and indoor parking space! Hallelujah I can wrench and spitshine the GTI to my heart's content!

I'm coming up on 77,777 miles and in the last couple days I've noticed I've got the characteristic moaning groaning of tired upper front strut mounts and the fact that they're riding high confirms it, not to mention how bumps on the road make the front end feel a bit disconnected. I've been pondering shocks and a suspension refresh for awhile but now I'm making it my first priority after the move is wrapped up and we get a washer and dryer. I read a lot about MkIV suspension tech and there's several things that stand out: stock-ish ride height is best for preserving roll centers and front-end attitude, careful about what bushings you put where, etc.

A couple other factors: I'm starting to do research into track day options here in the Seattle area and, though they're hard to find, there seems to be some opportunities for track time that are damned affordable, and a roommate of mine is interested in getting his car out on the track too, so I think I've still got a couple excursions in me. Also, I intend to be decently equipped with tools to do mechanic work in our garage and part of this project is also getting a set of tools together as a starting point for such work. I've got wrenches and sockets (probably have a few gaps in the lineup to fill), I'll need a jack and jackstands, a vise for the workbench, and a couple other things to get started on this and other projects.

So here's the plan!

H&R OE Sport Springs with Koni STR.T shocks
The price is right and I've been intrigued by STR.Ts since they debuted...described as the quality of Koni Sports "on their second lowest setting" for half the price, good for mild lowering, they seem like a great pairing with the OE Sports. The OE Sports, unlike Eibach Pro-Kits or Sofsports, are linear rate and a good enough spring rate to prevent bottoming with lowering and they really are the right ride height reduction for me (subtle enough to give it a stance, not noticeable enough to really see without looking at it, and maintaining the factory suspension geometry that works so well). Reviews for Koni FSDs paired with the OE Sports are ravingly positive, here's hoping that skipping the FSDs doesn't compromise the setup but they are still Konis.

ECS Tuning stage 2 suspension refresh kit
Tie rods, ball joints, strut mounts, bolts and nuts, and R32-spec LCA bushings. Seems like a good idea to get all that handled while I'm in there. It means I need to press bushings which I've never done before but it doesn't look too crazy to do with a vise and some brains and patience. Also involves some sort of ball joint pulling tool and a tie rod separator (which I want anyway because the BF's Del Sol needs tie rods too).

Also going to do front and rear bump stops and rear shock mounts too (not part of the refresh kit). Plus I'll need to acquire a spring compressor and a couple special VW tools for removing the strut from its mounting bracket.

All together, this setup looks like it'll run $900-$1000 shipped to my house, not including a few hundred for tools that I really want and need for other things anyway. This is something I hope to do in a weekend and have a very complete set of tools and parts before I start so I'm hoping you guys can find anything I've missed, any input on the hard points of such a job, and any advice on nice tools to acquire for chassis work. cool.gif
fiber optic
I can't offer any kind of suggestion on the suspension parts.

For the tools, I'm saving my coin for a nice Wilton vise. They range from around $150 to $1100 depending on the size/type. I'm looking at the $400-ish area. One from Harbor Freight could suit you just fine. I can't imagine pressing bushings would require anything too fancy as long as the jaws could spread far enough apart and were deep enough for it to fit.

I used a Harbor Freight pickle fork and a 3 pound dead blow hammer to separate the ball joints from the steering knuckle. It was a pain in the ass. The pickle fork was mangled and the hammer's soft faces were gone. I found out later you can use a metal sledge and hit the knuckle where the ball joint goes into it and it shocks it free. Oh well. When I buy stuff at HF I assume it will be worthless after a single use.

I was ditching the control arms to remove the 'lowering' from my truck and putting in stock. I didn't take the balljoints out of the control arms and the new ones had the balljoints already installed so I can't recommend anything there.


I did new tie rod ends as the old ones were worn and loose. I tried to roughly align it in my garage but I was WAY off. It squealed horribly on the 3 miles to the alignment shop and was darting all over the road. Get a 2nd pair of eyes on it. Put the steering wheel straight and look down the side. Adjust as necessary to get the face of the wheel to disappear simultaneously front and rear. Repeat on other side.

Whoa, wall of text.

Pic
clarkma5
Yeah, harbor freight is more my price range right now sadly, I know what you mean about them selling a lot of junk. I read about the pickle fork-and-sledge method for ball joint removal and it was described as "more difficult", so I'm glad to confirm that that means "yeap, it's a bitch". Probably will get something like this http://www.amazon.com/Vw-audi-Ball-Joint-S...r/dp/B0038P32AY

Tie rod alignment is something I'm aware of, using a tape measure and eyeball and maybe marking old threads I think I can get it in the ballpark, would definitely arrange to have it professionally aligned immediately after the fact with so much suspension stuff changing (and maybe a follow-up alignment a couple months later when it all settles)

Thank you for the input that was exactly what I was looking for!
fiber optic
QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Aug 17 2012, 12:24 PM) *
Yeah, harbor freight is more my price range right now sadly, I know what you mean about them selling a lot of junk. I read about the pickle fork-and-sledge method for ball joint removal and it was described as "more difficult", so I'm glad to confirm that that means "yeap, it's a bitch". Probably will get something like this http://www.amazon.com/Vw-audi-Ball-Joint-S...r/dp/B0038P32AY

Tie rod alignment is something I'm aware of, using a tape measure and eyeball and maybe marking old threads I think I can get it in the ballpark, would definitely arrange to have it professionally aligned immediately after the fact with so much suspension stuff changing (and maybe a follow-up alignment a couple months later when it all settles)

Thank you for the input that was exactly what I was looking for!



I know how the "HF sized budget" goes. My wallet has been thin for a couple of years now. I've embraced it to some degree. It's really close to work so I stop in during lunch break from time to time.

For $50-ish that tool from Amazon.com looks like a winner. It doesn't look too VW/Audi specific too which could be useful in the future for other vehicles. I'm guessing you can run down the threaded part with a regular wrench and not need an air tool. May need a section of pipe for some extra torque.

I got my tie rod ends from Autozone. I think just their house brand, duralast. They were made in Taiwan but they did have grease fittings AND a flat section to put a wrench on for the adjustments. As far as I know the ones I took out were original Ford and they had neither, though they may have been part of the lowering kit that was installed.

Good luck with it. I'd be interested in knowing what you decide to go with tool wise and how it pans out.
clarkma5
I'll definitely do a write-up when I do it, probably in this thread. Sometime in September is my plan.
Aircooled
Yeah i did some research when I had my Jetta and read that lowering it screws up the front end suspension and/or steering geometry. I remember seeing someone selling "lowering spindles" for $$$$ to counteract this. I know in the e30 community H&R sport or race springs with Bilstein sport shocks are extremely popular. My car is to the point where it needs the suspension refreshed but I'm just going to do the bushings when I put coilovers in next year.
b0mb3r
I used a generic looking ball joint separator that I had to grind down to fit my MKV suspension. Oh and by the way, my Koni sports finally blew after 100K. Koni replaced them without any complaints thumbs_up.gif
Good luck with the work, suspension work is a PITA.
clarkma5
I've always found suspensions the easiest stuff to work on with a car *shrug* At least, it makes the most sense to me.
b0mb3r
Perhaps you are right, timing belt on my GTI was worse.
clarkma5
Parts have been purchased, garage is slowly being cleared of boxes, hopefully this is on track to happen in a few weeks smile.gif
fiber optic
QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Aug 23 2012, 09:09 AM) *
Parts have been purchased, garage is slowly being cleared of boxes, hopefully this is on track to happen in a few weeks smile.gif


Did you go with the parts as described originally? Also, did you get that Amazon.com balljoint tool?
clarkma5
Yes and yes, the only thing I didn't get is the ECS tuning strut nut tool because I went with the open-sided socket special VW tool from another place instead (it's a 21 mm socket that has one side open so you can get a 7mm hex key inside it, basically so you can hold the outside of the strut nut with the socket and turn the inside with the hex to detach the top of the strut mounting).

I also got a 5" HFT vise and a set of jack stands, which I needed. I have a low profile bottle jack already, I might pickup a rollaround too. Otherwise need to go through the tools we already have at the house and fill in any gaps.
clarkma5
So gave the GTI a long, long overdue all-day detail. Snapped a side-on pic for its "pre-lowering" ride height. Watch this space!

clarkma5
Heh so suspension refresh in september plan obviously fell through (friend I was going to do it with double booked himself on me, though it will be happening as the parts have been sitting in my garage for a month and a half)

But there are developments! For one, I decided to go the route of dedicated winter wheels and tires this year, which arrived yesterday. 205/55R16 Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3Ds mounted on 16x7 Sport Edition F7s from TireRack:



Also, the 80,000 mile service is almost upon me and my order of spark plugs/air filter/fuel filter (really that's about all the 80k service REALLY is on my car, despite it being considered a "major service") arrived today. Since I've been experiencing some high throttle/low rev hesitation issues that I've suspected was due to my fuel filter never having been changed (another instance of me trusting VW's service intervals and being kinda burned by it, since they never even mention fuel filter replacement) and it was an easy job I just went ahead and did that right now. This is what 80,000 miles worth of fuel filter grime looks like!



Unfortunately, while I was under there I discovered that my rear axle beam bushings are splitting. :/



They're not terminal or anything, but this has caused some project creep for my suspension refresh. Since I have to unbolt the shocks (which are getting replaced anyway) from the axle to drop it to replace these bushings, I'm just going to do the whole thing at once. Also dropping the axle means undoing brake lines and I'm due for a brake flush AND want to do stainless lines, so that's going to happen too. Argh to project creep but yay for "getting it done while I'm in there"
clarkma5
So the last several months, particularly in 3rd or 4th gear, the car has stumbled when I've asked for appreciable acceleration from about 2000 RPM, which would then smooth out as the engine approached 3000. With the new fuel filter this hesitation is gone and the throttle picks up beautifully from low revs smile.gif
350Z
Hmmm I have been having a similar problem, looks like a new fuel filter may be worth my time.
clarkma5
Most VW guys say to change it every 20,000 miles, though that seems a little obsessive to me. Maybe every 40,000. In any case, it was a $14 part and a ten minute job involving jacking up the back of the car (just for space to get under there) and two flathead screwdrivers. Would recommend it!
fiber optic
Not that it's related but I change the fuel filter on my truck every 30k. I think that's what the manual says.
dukenukem
Speaking of fuel filters, I need to replace mine as well. Of course, the fuel filter in my car is in the fuel tank connected to the pump so the rear seat and all will have to come out.
fiber optic
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Oct 26 2012, 01:20 AM) *
Speaking of fuel filters, I need to replace mine as well. Of course, the fuel filter in my car is in the fuel tank connected to the pump so the rear seat and all will have to come out.


I'd take that over needing to drop the tank any day.
dukenukem
I would tend to agree
350Z
QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Oct 25 2012, 09:46 PM) *
Most VW guys say to change it every 20,000 miles, though that seems a little obsessive to me. Maybe every 40,000. In any case, it was a $14 part and a ten minute job involving jacking up the back of the car (just for space to get under there) and two flathead screwdrivers. Would recommend it!

Well I changed it and it is better but not perfect. I'm thinking new coil packs next.
clarkma5
My fuel pump change was a big help, spark plugs, air filter, and oil change helped that much more. Coils would be the next thing.
clarkma5
BTW, status update. Last round of parts ordered (basically rear axle beam bushings & bolts, SS lines & fluid) and got the weekend before thanksgiving firmly scheduled to do this with my friend! Looking forward to it!
shandyman5
Duke in tank fuel filters don't get replaced. Subaru doesn't even have a replacement part number for it seperate from the pump I believe. We used to get Subaru owners all the time wanting to change their fuel filter, and the in tank ones have no service interval or change method.
clarkma5
Hmm that's odd shandy. My brother's '02 WRX conked out at about the 60,000 mile mark and the prescription was severely clogged up fuel injectors and a new fuel filter was part of the repairs.
shandyman5
Let me Clarify.... I believe from the blob-eye model on. Your brother's should have the fuel filter right next to the driver-side front strut tower which is a replaceable part, and apart of the service interval.
clarkma5
Ah yes well that makes sense then!
dukenukem
QUOTE(shandyman5 @ Nov 6 2012, 02:10 AM) *
Duke in tank fuel filters don't get replaced. Subaru doesn't even have a replacement part number for it seperate from the pump I believe. We used to get Subaru owners all the time wanting to change their fuel filter, and the in tank ones have no service interval or change method.


http://www.iwsti.com/forums/how-install/16...eplacement.html

Fuel filter assembly

Part Number for 04-06 STi's is 42072FE020 *Verified by Shakes*
Part Number for '07 STi's is 42072FE030 *Provided by Cygnus Performance*
Part Number for 08+ STi's is 42072AG140 *Provided by sti2relaxxin*

Ozi
Hey Clark,

I had the same exact setup on 02 GTI minus the ECS tuning package. It was a huge difference. You will love it.
clarkma5
w00t I'm very excited for the end result. Slightly nervous about getting all the work done in a weekend (ya know how those little snags eat up so much time) but I've got a very competent friend with good tools and I've researched this backward and forward and am pretty comfortable with suspension stuff myself so I'm hopeful it'll go pretty smoothly.

Looking into getting the front spring/strut assembly pre-built in advance, I'm lead to believe I should have all the parts I need to do it just need to make sure. Would save some time this weekend.
clarkma5
Alright, woo, that was a long ass time in the making but it's finally done! And I totally didn't take ANY pictures of it lol (too busy getting my hands greasy)

Allotted two days to get all the work done and basically did all the work in about 10 hours, outside of taking it to get it professionally aligned. Impressions? The SS lines didn't quite take as much travel out of the first part of the brake pedal as I was hoping for though the modulation once the pedal gets into the meat of its range is much more firm and reassuring (a second flush may be helpful, we'll see) and if I had Koni Sports instead of STR.Ts I would be temped to try a single click of additional compression damping (found a section of road that was the right frequency of bumps to make it feel like the rebound was doing all the work, though I couldn't feel it elsewhere so really not much of an issue) but overall it's brilliant.

The ride quality is significantly better (I'm sure that's mostly due to the new shocks, the old ones were tired, no doubt) but the thing that I'm really loving is the way the car takes a set into a corner now. There's this downhill tightening right-hander on the road that runs from my house into town and on the old suspension there was this palpable sensation of the car diving as you got on the brakes, and then as you started turning the looseness in the tired bushings took the first of the lateral roll, the springs took the second part of the lateral roll until the sway bars took the loading, and then the third part of the lateral deflection came from the tire sidewalls, making the entire entry to the corner feel like a 4-part process. Now thanks to the additional spring stiffness, the dive and squat is drastically reduced, the bushings are all new and don't palpably deflect, and the lateral roll stiffness is now high enough that the car doesn't have to get into its sway bars to corner nicely. The result is that that rather complex corner has been reduced from a 4 step entry process to a 1 step, where the tires are now really the only thing that needs to be appreciably accounted for. It is wonderful.

Visually, I'm surprised how much rear ride height the new springs took out of the rear. MkIVs come from the factory with a lot of rake, most of which is now gone but without looking like its got a load in its pants la the Shine Real Street spring (the other legitimate option for MkIVs that preserves the front suspension geometry like my H&R OE Sports do). By measurement, the car still has a little bit of rake (26.75" from ground to top of the wheel arch in the front, 27.125" in the rear. 11.25" from ground to bottom of the front of the door and 11.5" to the bottom of the rear door) and while I might prefer the front sits a tiny tiny bit lower, the stance improvement is really nice. It looks more appropriately settled on its wheels without looking lowered or changed, which in the end is exactly what I was hoping for: a subtly better stance that you couldn't really differentiate from a stock car without having them side by side.

So yeah, I might've been able to eke out just that extra smidgen of preferred damping setup and ride height with significantly more expensive components but for the price of these upgrades I feel I got incredible value and I have no doubt in my mind that this is a superior setup to OEM. Very happy smile.gif

The work went quite smoothly. My biggest concerns were removing and pressing bushings which went pretty well (freezing bushings overnight, heatgun and grease on the parts that they were getting pressed into, and just using a vice for everything all worked) and the inner tie rod removal, which was EASY (internet made it sound impossible). The hardest part was really bleeding the brakes for me, but only because I'd never done it before and I started by not being careful enough getting all the air out of my pressure bleeder which meant I vapor-locked the master cylinder to start with and had no idea what was going on. Air impact gun was the best tool to have around for the whole thing smile.gif
clarkma5
I do find it interesting that the sense of reduced rake in the car is noticeable from the driver's seat. I reclined the driver's seat a few degrees from my old position because it feels like the car's center of rotation has moved backward, so by setting my torso a touch farther back in the car I have kept my center of gravity on top of the car's center of rotation. In other words, the handling feels less "on the nose", which is consistent with the amazing increase in braking performance before the ABS kicks in (feels like the rear is a little more involved in braking as well as turning, but in a neutral way so it just STOPS better and grips better)
clarkma5
Alright so threads are always better with pictures. Tomorrow I'm doing the Northwest Toys for Tots car show at Pacific Raceways so I wanted my car clean! That meant dealing with my increasingly yellow headlights and I went ahead and put the summer tires back on to see how they look with the springs.

Pre-lowering shot for comparison:



Dirty and with winter wheels on it, I tried to recreate the side-on shot from before so you could see the relative lowering. The rear definitely dropped more than the front did but this picture makes it look a little lower in the rear than it normally sits:



Ewww headlights need a little TLC:



Headlights after hitting them with the Mequiar's headlight restoration kit. Not perfect but a lot better, we'll see how long the sealant prevents the next round of yellowing. I may be tempted to go with the blackout 20th AE headlights in the future:



So here it is, cleaned and on its summer wheels. It really doesn't look lowered but it sits better, particularly in the back. I would've gotten a better shot but it had gotten dark and started raining :/

clarkma5
Did 5 laps of lead-follow at Pacific Raceways with roommate and friends ('08 Civic Coupe, Mustang 5.0, and a 350Z, all their first time on track and the seed has been planted muahahaha). Passenger in the Z took a video and you can see me 2 cars up the train. Passenger in the Mustang has an '03 GTI VR6 and wants to do something similar to what I've done; said my car doesn't roll around at all smile.gif

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x3n1en52kw4blwu/IMG_0504.MOV
fiber optic
That 5.0 Mustang was not the kind I was expecting. That track looks like fun but that weather did not.
shandyman5
Rough weather indeed! Congrats on getting your friends into OT however, it is a drug.

Car needs moar lower! tongue.gif
dukenukem
Trackdays in the wet are always fun. smile.gif
clarkma5
QUOTE(fiber optic @ Dec 3 2012, 08:50 AM) *
That 5.0 Mustang was not the kind I was expecting. That track looks like fun but that weather did not.


Heh I guess I should've specified tongue.gif Is it weird that I would say "Mustang 5.0" for a 2011+ and I would say "5.0 Mustang" for a Fox Body?

The track is fun, they were shy on parking so they filled up the final big turn with cars which made us do that weird little jog at the end of the video to cut through the drag strip and back to the main straight. Pretty much all of the track is either walls right up to the edge of the pavement or it's berms/dropoffs where the elevation change is happening. I'm really kinda shocked at the idea of taking it at 10/10ths...no margin for error!

QUOTE(shandyman5 @ Dec 3 2012, 12:14 PM) *
Rough weather indeed! Congrats on getting your friends into OT however, it is a drug.

Car needs moar lower! tongue.gif


Our session got the worst of the rain. It basically started raining as they were rolling us out and then eased off when we finished.

Didn't do springs for looks, and stock ride height maintains the front geometry for the best road holding (you can go lower with camber plates 'n stuff, but I think my oil pan skims 4 or 5 inches above the road as it is)

QUOTE(dukenukem @ Dec 3 2012, 01:27 PM) *
Trackdays in the wet are always fun. smile.gif


This was definitely the wettest track session I'd ever done in terms of rivers and standing water. The leader kept the pace to a low roar, though considering the cars in front of me were an E90 M3 leading two GT-Rs and an Evo X MR, we still hit 100 on the main straight and were going at it pretty decently in the corners smile.gif
clarkma5
Summer tires back on, kinda realized that I've only had the suspension with winters! Sadly didn't get pics when I cleaned it the next day sad.gif

ShinRa
sweet nazi sleigh bro.
clarkma5
Heh, it's getting there, slowly...

Got Michelin Pilot Super Sports all around in mid-May and did a track day on June 1st. Car felt good, the brake fluid, lines and HPS pads on stock rotors took the abuse much better than stock ones and the bushing and spring changes have made the car more balanceable on the threshold of understeer...it's still an understeering car at the limit, but the grip levels are much higher and the adjustability with throttle and trail braking is better. It made a track layout that seems to really punish understeer pretty doable ( http://www.ridgemotorsportspark.com/ ). Can't wait to see what solid subframe mounts do, and in the future it's got me dreaming about adjustable camber plates...I couldn't quite get my tires up to temperature at the track (sunny and ambient ~70 F, albeit a very new and smooth surface) so they were graining a little bit, not too bad but the ability to tune the front end to get the tires in their working range would be nice. Also, to continue my mission of getting the front end to work better.

Unfortunately halfway through the day I started getting a clicking passenger side outer CV joint and decided to be prudent and call it a day. Looking at getting Raxles eventually but I'm in the midst of having to prepare for a move so I'm not sure when that'll happen :/
clarkma5
Currently being shipped: new high-performance raxles driver & passenger side (replaces inner tripod with Porsche 930 Turbo CV joint, yay), solid subframe bushings, solid steering rack mounts, graphite-impregnated polyurethane front LCA bushings, polyurethane front upper strut mounts (Meyle ones are probably fine for a commuter but are well on their way to collapsing after 7,000 miles of my use). Aero wipers front and rear because I need wipers and the look is cleaner, and a cargo cover retractable cord dealy and the spare tire bolt because they've both broken!
Synesthesia
Sounds stiff! Show pics of the job, sounds... laborious.
clarkma5
it'll be pretty thorough but it's really not that tough to get the whole strut out.
clarkma5
Installed saturday: raxles, solid steering rack mount & solid subframe bushings from USRT, black forest industries front LCA bushings, polyflex poly strut top mounts. Actually took pics this time, yay!

Starting out:


Pulled out the knuckles, control arms, and axles:


Old axles clicking at the track is what started this round of parts. Thought it was the passenger side outer joint but the driver's side inner joint is the only one that looks like this:


Front LCA bushings, graphite-impregnated poly. Between this and the stock strut mounts, this marks the end for original bushings/mounts in my front suspension!


Poly strut top mount, with my awesome friend enjoying a few too many beers as he helps me


Subframe dropped, bolts and parts everywhere:


Subframe out of ze car (my "while I'm in there-itis" immediately started kicking myself. "I could've replaced the sway bar mounts!" lol)


Pressing out old subframe pushings:


Dremel sanding subframe to get the new solid parts in:


Side by side: old steering rack mount and suframe bushing on left, new on right


Subframe with new parts on it:


So many parts! Hope I remember where they all go...


Yup, back in one piece, no problems with it at all!
fiber optic
That garage looks to be very well stocked with chemistry.

Also, does anyone offer a tubular subframe for these cars? It doesn't look particularly complicated and I'd be surprised if there wasn't one available.
clarkma5
Haven't seen a tubular subframe, there are companies that offer tubular control arms, race bearings instead of bushings, etc. The company I bought the subframe bushings from also sells a "race-stiffened subframe" which is a stock subframe with those same bronze (brass?) bushings and some extra stiffening plates and such welded on: http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_...roducts_id=1703

And yeah, his garage is very very well stocked, it's very nice to work in. "Oh, this wrench doesn't quite fit into this spot" "do you want the smaller, right angle electric impact then?" "fuck yeah!"
fiber optic
They don't list a price for that stiffened subframe. So it's probably expensive and they're not selling a lot of them. I'm guessing it's probably not worth anyone's time to try to make a tubular one.

It sounds like my father-in-law's garage. It seems like he has every tool ever, and all kinds of specialty stuff too. I feel embarrassed when he comes to my house to help with a project since my selection is far more basic. He doesn't complain though, apparently his other son-in-law has an even more limited selection.
clarkma5
Yeah, I dunno what that subframe would cost. A new OEM one is about $500, the bushings are about $120, I'm guessing that race stiffened one is probably about $1000-$1500.
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