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clarkma5
http://www.insideline.com/subaru/brz/2013/...-and-video.html

QUOTE
In addition to its mid-speed capability, the BRZ encourages full-attack driving on unfamiliar roads well into triple digits. Its brakes don't fade, its gearbox doesn't balk and its chassis remains composed even when the road surface isn't. We hammered it for hours over rough roads with little regard for the hardware and never once bottomed the suspension or had a moment that made us reconsider our speed.


I'm in love. I have committed myself to getting an FR-S to replace the GTI at this point, pending a test drive of course (I don't need the BRZ's standard navi, I think it's silly they made it standard equipment in a car like this...also, while the BRZ's looks have grown on me, the FR-S is still the more attractive of the two in my book)
Razor
Sounds like it needs more power.
OHirtenfelder
I agree with Clarkma on this.

Razor, after reading that review, you still think the car needs more power? Not meaning to offend, but I think you are just absolutely missing the point of this car.

They are using the Lotus Exige and Porsche GT3RS as comparisons as far as driver involvement goes, and those are both serious pieces of kit. Does the fact that this thing has 'only' 200horsepower, but can be compared to those 2 cars not show that just as much fun can be had in a car far less powerful or expensive, and therefor the 'lack of power' is mostly irrelevant.

I would imagine that part of the reason that they have left this car naturally aspirated only is so that thy can introduce a moire powerful turbo version a bit further down the line.

I like it. Lots. But as Clark said, I do also think the 86 is prettier.
b0mb3r
This is really exciting! It sounds like a really compelling package, a small coupe that does not penalize you like a miata. I would honestly wait a little bit before buying to let the after market catch up; with a car like that there should be many exciting options.

One thing that concerns me is direct injection on the engine, most of the time it is great technology, but as everyone knows it comes with carbon built up on the valves. I know that in VAG world, the N/A cars have it much worse than the turbo cars, because turbo cars can get hotter and hence burn off the carbon. I am just curious how they handled that in this car, because as far as I know ze germans have not figured this out yet.

shandyman5
Good news... I drove one.

Full write-up to come but guess what... It NEEDS more power.

I will continue in a later post.

Razor
QUOTE(shandyman5 @ Mar 24 2012, 12:14 PM) *
Good news... I drove one.

Full write-up to come but guess what... It NEEDS more power.

I will continue in a later post.


Like I thought. I'm sorry, but 7.3 seconds to 60 is just not fast enough for some people, me included.
dukenukem
QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Mar 23 2012, 04:26 PM) *
http://www.insideline.com/subaru/brz/2013/...-and-video.html



I'm in love. I have committed myself to getting an FR-S to replace the GTI at this point, pending a test drive of course (I don't need the BRZ's standard navi, I think it's silly they made it standard equipment in a car like this...also, while the BRZ's looks have grown on me, the FR-S is still the more attractive of the two in my book)


the local Subaru dealership had organized a BBQ meet for the KC Subaru club and the sales manager there told me the navi won't be standard. Whether or not he is correct, we shall know soon enough.

He said he has gotten 4 confirmed orders for the BRZZZZZZZ

QUOTE(Razor @ Mar 24 2012, 12:27 PM) *
Like I thought. I'm sorry, but 7.3 seconds to 60 is just not fast enough for some people, me included.


Put a LS in it.
clarkma5
I wouldn't mind a little more grunt, but 7.3 seconds to 60 and a 15.3 second quarter is a match for my car, which is quick enough to have fun with. Is it FAST? No, but it's also a $25k sports car with world-class dynamics when the average family sedan is at least as expensive. I'll trade a little straight line speed for that.

I'm sure there will be a more powerful model in a year or so, but it'll cost more so *shrug*. I can afford this and I like the fuel economy rating, normally aspirated nature, and whole concept of the car. I'm on the mailing list for the local scion dealer to let me know when an FR-S is available to test drive, I'll put it that way.
shandyman5
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 24 2012, 08:56 PM) *
the local Subaru dealership had organized a BBQ meet for the KC Subaru club and the sales manager there told me the navi won't be standard. Whether or not he is correct, we shall know soon enough.

He said he has gotten 4 confirmed orders for the BRZZZZZZZ



Put a LS in it.


Nav will not be standard.

Go for a drive in it duke, I think you'll continue to enjoy your hawk eye a lot more.
Bjorn
I have to agree with Clark.

At this price point you don't get power and handling. If forced to pick one I would gladly exchange outright power for a sweetly developed chassis.

Besides, for 99.9% of driving 200 bhp is a lot. That's 30 more than in my Legacy, and I still manage to have fun. More power in a lighter RWD chassis. Yes please.

I want one.

shandyman5
QUOTE(Bjorn @ Mar 25 2012, 10:50 AM) *
I have to agree with Clark.

At this price point you don't get power and handling. If forced to pick one I would gladly exchange outright power for a sweetly developed chassis.

Besides, for 99.9% of driving 200 bhp is a lot. That's 30 more than in my Legacy, and I still manage to have fun. More power in a lighter RWD chassis. Yes please.

I want one.


You can surely get the best of both at that price point.... The car is certainly under powered, one can have fun in a Yugo if they want that doesn't make it quick or enjoyable. Take one for a test drive when they hit your canuck dealer I think you will see that even if they keep it N/A it could use about 60-100 more hp. Having 250-300 hp certainly won't detract from the fun factor at all. This is why I look forward to an STi version of it.
Synesthesia
Sounds fantastic! Adding power is much easier than getting all the rest right! Lets hope they come out with other options to satiate the power-thirsty. biggrin.gif If they don't, the aftermarket will...
Bjorn
QUOTE(shandyman5 @ Mar 25 2012, 10:13 AM) *
You can surely get the best of both at that price point.... The car is certainly under powered, one can have fun in a Yugo if they want that doesn't make it quick or enjoyable. Take one for a test drive when they hit your canuck dealer I think you will see that even if they keep it N/A it could use about 60-100 more hp. Having 250-300 hp certainly won't detract from the fun factor at all. This is why I look forward to an STi version of it.


Based on your car history I think you have been tempted by the dark side.

Cars have too much power these days, which they need to cart around their sat-navs, 76 airbags, cupholders and 400-pound occupants.
dukenukem
QUOTE(shandyman5 @ Mar 25 2012, 08:28 AM) *
Nav will not be standard.

Go for a drive in it duke, I think you'll continue to enjoy your hawk eye a lot more.

I have decided to sell/ not sell my sti at least 3 times this week. canadian.gif

I want to try something new like a 335i or CTS-V or E46 M3 but I still love my STI. sad.gif
shandyman5
QUOTE(Bjorn @ Mar 25 2012, 12:46 PM) *
Based on your car history I think you have been tempted by the dark side.

Cars have too much power these days, which they need to cart around their sat-navs, 76 airbags, cupholders and 400-pound occupants.


I am not tempted by the dark side I embrace it. A car can be fast and still not have all that crap. However, that crap sure is nice. (With the exception of the 400 pounder's lol, no fatties allowed).

As someone who open tracks cars, I very much understand the incredible importance of a good handling/braking car. It is much more essential than an overpowered car.

The problem however is that the BRZ with all of it's great handling and balance is still just eh.... It may have the balance and turn-in of a Cayman which I will even attest to but it certainly doesn't ride or drive like a Cayman or even a 335i/M3; hell not even like a Miata. When you get into one of the cars mentioned above, they are unmistakable in terms of the drive and steering feel. They are bar none phenomenal. The BRZ just leaves more to be desired..

I also don't understand where this anti-HP sentiment comes from with a lot of you. It's almost like you have never driven a car with serious balls. A 911 is great but when you can have the added power of a GT2 or GT3 it doesn't detract from the car... It only makes it better. I feel like there is this idea that the more HP/TQ the less fun or entertaining it will be.
shandyman5
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 25 2012, 12:55 PM) *
I have decided to sell/ not sell my sti at least 3 times this week. canadian.gif

I want to try something new like a 335i or CTS-V or E46 M3 but I still love my STI. sad.gif


Which model CTS-V? Do you need a sedan?
350Z
QUOTE(Bjorn @ Mar 25 2012, 05:46 PM) *
Based on your car history I think you have been tempted by the dark side.

Cars have too much power these days, which they need to cart around their sat-navs, 76 airbags, cupholders and 400-pound occupants.


If you have a lack of power then you sacrafice day to day drivability and it's why I picked the Cupra R over a Civic Type R, sure on a quick blast the Civic is a better car but the Leon is just so much easier to drive on a day to day basis.
dukenukem
QUOTE(350Z @ Mar 25 2012, 02:27 PM) *
If you have a lack of power then you sacrafice day to day drivability and it's why I picked the Cupra R over a Civic Type R, sure on a quick blast the Civic is a better car but the Leon is just so much easier to drive on a day to day basis.


i don't think the BRZ lacks power so much as it would have been so much better with another 30-40hp
hybr1d
As a former S2k owner, when i read any review of 86/brz/frs it reminds me of s2k, immediately. lightweight, rwd, perfect balance, low power, small, great handling... its just that s2k was topless, and the 86 has half of one seat extra in the back.
OHirtenfelder
Shandyman, I don't think it's a matter of people being 'anti-hp'. No one is saying that less power is better. What is being said though, is that 200hp is plenty to have proper fun in, and that it's not a requirement to have 400+ hp. That's all.

I think most cars (bar the absolute topdogs, read SL65AMG,etc.) wouldn't be any worse for wear with a powewr bump, but that's not to say that they aren't perfectly awesome without said power.
350Z
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 25 2012, 09:05 PM) *
i don't think the BRZ lacks power so much as it would have been so much better with another 30-40hp

Rather than the car feeling underpowered I think it would feel like hard work, it's got the power but you have to work hard for it.
moe
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 25 2012, 08:55 PM) *
I want to try something new like a 335i or CTS-V or E46 M3 but I still love my STI. sad.gif


Who's the yuppie now?
dukenukem
QUOTE(moe @ Mar 26 2012, 07:06 AM) *
Who's the yuppie now?

None of those will be automatic. Raspberry.gif
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