Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Does anyone use a 1ds2 AND a 5D2?
Dieselstation Car Forums > Multimedia > Photography > Gear & Equipment
john jovic
There are about 100,000 opinions on the “Interweb” and they all seem to contradict one another. I just want to know if the 5D2 has equal, better or worse image quality than the 1ds2 at ISO100 (I don't care about low light performance at all). Highlight/Shadow detail, dynamic range, is it really better or did another marketing angel get it’s wings?

Any opinions, preferably from car dudes, I don't care how the 5d2 renders skin tones which seems to be where the 1ds2 is preferred?

JJ
Seethegrim
My good mate has that camera combo. If I ever need an extra body for something, he passes the 1ds2 to me no problems. He won't part with the 5d2 though... he swears that the 5d2 outperformes the 1ds2 by far in dynamic range, highlight/shadow detail retention, etc.

I've never pitched the 2 together, but thats at least one opinion for you.
john jovic
QUOTE(Seethegrim @ Apr 17 2010, 11:21 PM) *
My good mate has that camera combo. If I ever need an extra body for something, he passes the 1ds2 to me no problems. He won't part with the 5d2 though... he swears that the 5d2 outperformes the 1ds2 by far in dynamic range, highlight/shadow detail retention, etc.

I've never pitched the 2 together, but thats at least one opinion for you.


Thanks. What kind of work does he do? Many people seem to think of the 5d2 as a hi ISO camera so most of the talk/praise is about that end of the cameras performance. Do you think this is what he's talking about too?

JJ
Dragos
i saw a comparison of 5d mkII with the 1ds Mk III and they are kind of the same....so for sure it outperforms the 1ds mkII for image quality!
Seethegrim
QUOTE(john jovic @ Apr 17 2010, 04:11 PM) *
Thanks. What kind of work does he do? Many people seem to think of the 5d2 as a hi ISO camera so most of the talk/praise is about that end of the cameras performance. Do you think this is what he's talking about too?

JJ


He shoots a variety of things. I do know he doesn't do automotive. But he does put the cameras through their paces in sun & rain.
john jovic
QUOTE(Dragos @ Apr 18 2010, 12:44 AM) *
i saw a comparison of 5d mkII with the 1ds Mk III and they are kind of the same....so for sure it outperforms the 1ds mkII for image quality!


The odd thing is that I've heard people say the opposite as well, quite a few times, but I think mainly from people shooters. How can everyone be right? Anyway, I'm borrowing one in a week or so to see for myself, comparing shot for shot with the 1ds2. I actually don't want to buy a 5d2 as I think it will be superseded soon but WTF, and they are quite cheap now.

QUOTE(Seethegrim @ Apr 18 2010, 01:21 AM) *
He shoots a variety of things. I do know he doesn't do automotive. But he does put the cameras through their paces in sun & rain.


Thanks

JJ
Dragos
man if you want a new camera the 1ds mk IV is on its way this year smile.gif the best thing as you said is to rent one or borrow and to some test in your way and see which one makes you more happy!
mackey
Looking for a good deal? find a 5D Mark 2 on fredmiranda for cheap, usually less than 5k shutter. Just get pics and paperwork and you're good to go.
john jovic
QUOTE(Dragos @ Apr 18 2010, 01:48 AM) *
man if you want a new camera the 1ds mk IV is on its way this year smile.gif the best thing as you said is to rent one or borrow and to some test in your way and see which one makes you more happy!


Absolutely! The only way is to borrow and test it to see if it suits you. That's something I've done for about the last 20 years with lenses, it's just a little harder with camera's.

I've always disliked the 5d2 because of it's lower sync speed, only about 1/3rd stop, but I'm not sure how much of a factor that is. I know that some times it will make a difference, when overpowering daylight, but in most cases it won't matter at all. My strobes are borderline as it is and I really don't want to have to upgrade all my light too.

JJ
Nate047
I own a 1DS3 and a 5D2, used to own a 1DS2 as well... If you only care about ISO 100, pecking order is:

1DS2 < 5D2 < 1DS3
john jovic
QUOTE(Nate047 @ Apr 21 2010, 03:33 AM) *
I own a 1DS3 and a 5D2, used to own a 1DS2 as well... If you only care about ISO 100, pecking order is:

1DS2 < 5D2 < 1DS3


Thanks.

Have you seen any of the low ISO noise pattern that is sometimes mentioned? I'm guessing it would only show up with considerable underexposure and then boost the exposure in RAW conversion. Or is it total crap and not something that ever comes up if the exposures are close to the mark in the first place (minor exposure adjustments)?

JJ
Nate047
Mmmm yes if you have a file that's pretty far underexposed it's hard to bump it up cleanly... there's a fuck load of noise in the shadow areas when you get into REALLY bumping them. To avoid that I generally will expose right and bring it back a few stops, like up to 3-5 stops over and you're still good usually. I'm sure I don't need to explain the benefits of exposing right, but the files from both the 5D2 and 1DS3 really do tend to recover blown highlights quite well in my actual real world use... thumbs_up.gif the people who will disagree are the ones who are only using "recovery" and not really milking it DS_Naughty2.gif

edit: to clarify, you can still usually bump exposure by 2-2.5 (sometimes more) stops without a lot of problems
john jovic
Thanks. That's the kind of info I was after but I'm confused by the comment below, why expose right (presumably the correct exposure where no tweaking is needed in the RAW conversion) and then bring it back. I'm not sure what you mean or why you would do that.

QUOTE(Nate047 @ Apr 21 2010, 10:23 AM) *
... To avoid that I generally will expose right and bring it back a few stops, like up to 3-5 stops over and you're still good usually. ...


JJ
Nate047
it has to do with the dynamic range your sensor picks up... give this a read, it's worth knowing thumbs_up.gif

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorial...ose-right.shtml

cliffnotes: your sensor picks up exponentially more data in the upper end of the histogram and virtually nothing in the low end
john jovic
QUOTE(Nate047 @ Apr 22 2010, 04:14 AM) *
it has to do with the dynamic range your sensor picks up... give this a read, it's worth knowing thumbs_up.gif

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorial...ose-right.shtml

cliffnotes: your sensor picks up exponentially more data in the upper end of the histogram and virtually nothing in the low end


Thanks. I didn't realise that was what you meant in the other comment.

JJ
pakula
When Easton got his 5D2, he sold the 1Ds2 pretty quickly.
john jovic
Thanks Mark.
JJ
Easton
Pakula beat me to it - I bought the 5D2 to replace my 1Ds2 and while I never did accurate/side by side/direct comparisons, I feel the image quality is mindblowingly better than the 1Ds2.

5D2 is the perfect camera for me, since it just suits my style and workflow on a shoot. I know it has it's cons (focus and flash) but that would effect other styles more so than my own.

I couldn't imagine using anything else, unless 5D3 has some bloody revolutionary feature(s)

1Ds2 feels so stone-aged whenever I handle one again.
john jovic
Thanks Easton. I must admit I don't really want to part with the 1ds2, it feels like a hammer, I like that. But then again I never carry it for any personal stuff because it weighs more than a hammer! Let's face it, there's no perfect camera.

I almost bought the 5d2 ages ago but the flash sync speed put me off. However 5D2's are so cheap now that I'm happy to live with it.

JJ
Mr.D
The syncspeed isn't even 1/200, its 1/160 if you shoot in total darkness. in 1/200 its still visible in the 1/12 of the bottom.
Seethegrim
This is the first time I'm hearing about the slow sync on the 5d2? Isn't your flash sync related to your triggers & lights - not all the camera's fault?
Easton
I think it's related to the camera body's shutter operation, beyond a certain speed the closing curtain moves in before the opening curtain moves out when an exposure is made, thus only part of the image is captured when the flash goes off.

I'm not 100% sure but I think thats how it works.
john jovic
Ditto what Easton said.

Max sync speed is limited by the camera's shutter itself (but lets not get started on the ways people overcome that, that's another story altogether). Canon seems to have a marketing strategy where only the 'Pro' bodies get full sync speed and the next tier of camera, EOS3 in the film days for example, gets a lower shutter speed. That seems to be one way Canon extracts the maximum amount of money from the punters. Nikon is different, even the D60 had 1/500th flash sync.

The problem for ME with the 5d2's sync speed is simply that the 1/3rd-1/2 stop longer shutter speed that you have to use (to sync the flash correctly) would lead to problems balancing sun with the power of MY flashes (a bunch of Metz 60's). The 60's are plenty powerfull for most purpuses (I wouldn't have used them the last 10 years if they weren't) but they only just barely overpower sun, and only in some circumstances. So, having to use a slower shutter speed on the 5D2 would effectively require a smaller aperture and more flash power for the same effect at a higher shutter speed and larger aperture.

Sure, if I had a bunch of Ranger RX's then this would be irrelevant.

JJ
Seethegrim
QUOTE(john jovic @ May 2 2010, 02:04 AM) *
The problem for ME with the 5d2's sync speed is simply that the 1/3rd-1/2 stop longer shutter speed that you have to use (to sync the flash correctly) would lead to problems balancing sun with the power of MY flashes (a bunch of Metz 60's). The 60's are plenty powerfull for most purpuses (I wouldn't have used them the last 10 years if they weren't) but they only just barely overpower sun, and only in some circumstances. So, having to use a slower shutter speed on the 5D2 would effectively require a smaller aperture and more flash power for the same effect at a higher shutter speed and larger aperture.

Sure, if I had a bunch of Ranger RX's then this would be irrelevant.

JJ


+1 exactly. sad.gif Makes me a bit disapointed with getting a 5d2.
Nate047
Just for my information, could you guys link or explain a bit more about the shutter thing? I've only ever gone up to like maybe 1/200th for sync (I shoot with OG blue pocket wizards and profoto/bron) but I'd like to hear about the problems people have going higher, and with what kind of gear. I often times find myself wishing I could sync higher...
john jovic
QUOTE(Nate047 @ May 4 2010, 03:05 AM) *
Just for my information, could you guys link or explain a bit more about the shutter thing? I've only ever gone up to like maybe 1/200th for sync (I shoot with OG blue pocket wizards and profoto/bron) but I'd like to hear about the problems people have going higher, and with what kind of gear. I often times find myself wishing I could sync higher...


I don't know much about how to do it but Google "Hypersync".

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_pag...-9884-9903-9907 has an example.

Some PW's, and I believe some other radio triggers too, allow you to exceed the cameras max sync speed but generally not by too much.

I've never really followed it up much as I've always assumed you'd loose flash power, as with Canon HSS, but maybe that's not the case with some methods such as Hypersync.

JJ
n1smo
I dont see a big problem with 1/200 shutter speed. There are lots of ways to handle that.

- lower the apperture
- position your lighting closer to the car
- light the car and background seperatly (thats something that i recommend on every shot anyway)

In my opinion this is realy a luxury problem wink.gif
Nate047
Mmmm come on now tho. I don't know about you, but for me aperture is the #1 priority when I shoot, especially a non-moving subject like a car. No way I'm stopping down if the look I want is wider open. Also, moving the light changes the quality/character/shape/falloff, not just the brightness... And adding ND darkens the entire image proportionally, so you don't actually gain any flash power... So there are indeed times when higher sync would be the best way to achieve your look which is why I'm interested in the subject.

JJ thanks for the link. I played around with some high speed sync for about half a day when the TT5 for Canon first came out (before the recall, using the 1DS3 not the 5D2) We were able to get 1/500th with my archaic Broncolor Primo 1600/3200 setup... Problem is, it involves shooting, setting the micro adjuster on the computer, testing, adjusting, testing again, etc etc etc, long story short is that it requires a fuck load of testerbating and it never really *quite* gets it right. The consistency is just not there, for me it wasn't reliable enough where I felt okay about depending on it. I believe that if you had some brand new fancy tough guy strobes, it would be more reliable and consistent. The flash duration of my setup was not exact/precise enough when you get into dealing with speeds of faster than 1/500th, we started seeing the curtains. The lights used for the test are probably 15 years old tho LOL head.gif

also for the record I did not do any testing with speedlights, just the Bron 1600's and 3200's. so the story might be completely different with a 580 or SB800 etc thumbs_up.gif
Dejan Sokolovski
Stop talking about Canon, I want a Canon 5DmarkII.


boohoo.gif
john jovic
QUOTE(Dejan Sokolovski @ May 10 2010, 10:30 AM) *
Stop talking about Canon, I want a Canon 5DmarkII.


boohoo.gif


The grass is always greener! I think I want Nikon!

JJ
Dejan Sokolovski
At least we don't dream about Pentax or Olympus!
Seethegrim
QUOTE(Dejan Sokolovski @ May 10 2010, 02:49 AM) *
At least we don't dream about Pentax or Olympus!


This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2018 Invision Power Services, Inc.