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Full Version: DSCOTY '09: Ultra-exotics
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clarkma5
For more on the DieselStation Car of the Year '09 competition, please see this thread.

Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Grand Sport
Base MSRP:
$2,250,000 (estimated)
Available Engines: 8.0 liter DOHC quad-turbocharged 64-valve W16 with 1001 HP and 922 ft.-lbs. of torque
Available Transmissions: 7-speed dual clutch transmission
Available Drivetrains: All-wheel drive
EPA Fuel Economy: 8 City/14 Highway (for standard model)
Curb Weight: 4387 lbs.







Lamborghini Reventon
Base MSRP:
$1,500,000 (approximate)
Available Engines: 6.5 liter DOHC 48-valve V12 with 650 HP and 487 ft.-lbs. of torque
Available Transmissions: 6-speed sequential manual gearbox
Available Drivetrains: All-wheel drive
EPA Fuel Economy: 9 City/14 Highway
Curb Weight: 3671 lbs.







Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG Black Series
Base MSRP:
$299,000
Available Engines: 6.0 liter SOHC twin-turbocharged 36-valve V12 with 661 HP and 738 ft.-lbs. of torque
Available Transmissions: 5-speed automatic transmission with manual shift capabilities
Available Drivetrains: Rear wheel drive with limited slip differential
EPA Fuel Economy: 11 City/18 Highway (for non-Black SL65 AMG model)
Curb Weight: 4345 lbs.







SSC Ultimate Aero
Base MSRP:
$700,000 (estimated)
Available Engines: 6.3 liter OHV twin-turbocharged 16-valve V8 with 1287 HP and 1112 ft.-lbs. of torque
Available Transmissions: 6-speed manual transmission
Available Drivetrains: Rear wheel drive
EPA Fuel Economy: 18 City/27 Highway (2008 model)
Curb Weight: 2750 lbs. (dry weight)





4wheelfreak
The Bugatti and Benz are porkers and the Aero is built is someone's garage. That leaves the Lambo to get my vote. But to drive every day, I do think the SL65 AMG BS would be really fun (being forgiving and the most practical), plus that widebody is incredibly badass.
Razor
The Mercedes can't run with the big dogs, so it's out for me. The Reventon is not a big enough improvement over the base Murcielago to justify that epic price increase, even if there are only 20.

Now for the fun part. The minute I saw the choices I already had a clear winner.

I hate the Ultimate Aero TT. It is the coldest, least inspired hypercar ever created. It is a pinnacle example of the "because we can" mentality. They say the new one is geared for 282 miles per hour, but can they confirm that? Nope, shot in the dark. It is nothing more than an overpowered project car with little attention paid to any detail. Yeah, brute force works, but engineering excellence cannot be overruled by anything.

Veyron. This version's image is going to get ripped to shreds by celebrities and the like because it's a convertible, but I don't care. More than 220 without the top on, and still maintaining complete structural rigidity? Kudos Bugatti. That thing kicks ass. thumbs_up.gif
Vadvagool
I've seen the Reventon and Veyron in person.

Reventon = Sex
Mitlov
The Merc, because it's the scariest-looking Merc ever and it can alter the rotation of the earth with its rear wheels. EDIT: I just realized it's actually the second-weakest car here torque-wise, but still, I just like it the most.

The Reventon slightly annoys me because it's not that special mechanically. It's just a tweaked and better-looking Murcielago, right? Yet it costs 3-4 times as much?
clarkma5
The SL65's cool but I still don't think Mercedes quite has it. I agree 100% with the SSC Aero project car comments above, and the Reventon is rightly noted as being an overpriced styling exercise over an LP640. It really has to be the Veyron.
Aircooled
Bugatti, its power and refinement are on an whole level above the rest
4wheelfreak
^But it weighs as much as a herd of elephants!!!
MustangAficionado
Look at the weight of the SL!
moe
QUOTE(Razor @ Mar 15 2009, 07:16 AM) *
More than 220 without the top on, and still maintaining complete structural rigidity?


the grand sport is limited to 200mph if i remember correctly.

i went with the ssc. it reminds me of an old-school supercar in the way that it might actually kill you. it even looks like one...
clarkma5
QUOTE(moe @ Mar 15 2009, 12:45 AM) *
the grand sport is limited to 200mph if i remember correctly.


217 I think. Not like that's slow...
OHirtenfelder
The Bugatti gets my vote here, and probably will/would in many votes like this for years to come. This is for the simple reason, of what kind of an achievement the Veyron actually is. It costs the earth, fine, it weighs a f-load, fine, but look how quick it is. It manages to be hugely fast, hugely quick around a track(even with all that weight), it manages to be possibly the most epic GT ever, all at the same time. Plus there were huge design constrraints and obstacles right from the word go, but still it is one of the greatest pieces of any sort of engineering marvel built by man. A truly epic car. Plus it's actually just a V-Dub, and for that I love it biggrin.gif
Easton
Reventon,

Because the Veyron makes car-nuts go "WHOA", but the Lambo makes EVERYONE shout it.

Yes, technical exercises is hugely related to supercars, but not as much as supercars are related to impressing the general public.

I'll put it this way - I think the Reventon will get you pussy much better than the Veyron Raspberry.gif and thats how supercars should be rated.
Bjorn
Frankly none of these cars really does it for me.

The AMG SL Black gets the nod because it's genuinely badassed for a Merc.
DB9
QUOTE(MustangAficionado @ Mar 15 2009, 02:11 AM) *
Look at the weight of the SL!


I didn't even notice that. Still gave the win to the Merc though. That thing (and the whole Black Series for that matter) are just fucking incredible.
Frederf
The Veyron would be the only one you wouldn't feel like an asshat rolling up to a nice party in Monaco in, apart from the SL, but the SL is another typical merc "let's increase horsepower and keep it RWD nonsense."
dukenukem
The Veyron is the 2nd fastest car in the world. Thats like getting sloppy seconds. Fuck that shit.
Razor
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 15 2009, 11:37 PM) *
The Veyron is the 2nd fastest car in the world. Thats like getting sloppy seconds. Fuck that shit.


The first fastest car in the world has fake boobs and a butter face, and isn't as good in bed as the looks make it out to be.
MustangAficionado
QUOTE(Razor @ Mar 15 2009, 07:42 PM) *
The first fastest car in the world has fake boobs and a butter face, and isn't as good in bed as the looks make it out to be.

I've said it before, more power and goes faster than the veyron with half the turbos, half the cylinders for less than half the price. And it's basically engineered in an oversized garage, and i bet they make money when they sell one unlike VW.
Not that I like the car, I just don't like the veyron at all. If it was that easy to top the Veyron, then it's not much of a car in current form.
clarkma5
Depends how you define "tops". In terms of numbers, yes, the SSC tops the Veyron in basically every category. Outside of that I don't think it does at all.
OHirtenfelder
I don't know all that much about the SSC, so I'm going out on a limb here:

I would imagine the SSC's interior to be quite plasticky and shitty compared to a Veyron. It definitely looks nowhere near as classy as the Veyron does.
SSC
The seats alone look quite shitty IMO.
Veyron

The Veyron's interior oozes class. It might as well be the interior of a luxury GT.
And I'm by no means saying that this justifies the hugely inflated pricetag of a Veyron(at which they still make a loss), but let's face it, the people who buy Veyrons don't care about money. So it wouldn't matter if it cost 5 Million US.

The SSC is a car that will perform superbly around a track, but I really doubt it will devour the kms the way a Veyron will. With ease and in pure comfort.
Plus the Veyron is a completely bespoke car, no part bin rubbish here(again, this is to my knowledge). The SSC uses Focus headlights. Now I see where the $650 000 are being spent.

It might not be quite as fast as the SSC, but who gives a damn. No one who buys these cars (maybe 0.1111111%) will ever take them anywhere near even the Veyron's top end. It beat the Veyron by 2.something miles an hour (top end). The whole 274 mph is BS to my knowledge. The car hasn't actually done this, it is only claimed, with 'the correct gear ratios'.

Plus the SSC is ugly. Not ugly in a hairless cat ugly, but ugly in a 'just cannot compete with Veyron' ugly. It just doesn't have the character of the Veyron. It might as well be a kit car. That's what it looks like.

I just really think that the Veyron deserves huge amounts of respect. Simply for what it is and what it's done.
MustangAficionado
Oh, okay I was confused. i thought super-exotics were about stats and speed, but here I've come to learn it's interior shwankynes - god know's i'm going to be checking out that hand stitching at 220+mph.

I realize an exotic needs the name, and needs to exclusive high end this and that and that's why you don't see equally stats setting cars like the Ariel Atom. But Bugatti didn't release the Veyron touting it's floor mats and lumbar support - it touted aspects that have been taken over with more ease for less, while weighing a lot less.

Bugatti's nothing more than a flagship project, it doesn't bring anything to the table. At least the SCC succeeds in it's aim.
dukenukem
QUOTE(MustangAficionado @ Mar 16 2009, 06:02 PM) *
Oh, okay I was confused. i thought super-exotics were about stats and speed, but here I've come to learn it's interior shwankynes - god know's i'm going to be checking out that hand stitching at 220+mph.

I realize an exotic needs the name, and needs to exclusive high end this and that and that's why you don't see equally stats setting cars like the Ariel Atom. But Bugatti didn't release the Veyron touting it's floor mats and lumbar support - it touted aspects that have been taken over with more ease for less, while weighing a lot less.

Bugatti's nothing more than a flagship project, it doesn't bring anything to the table. At least the SCC succeeds in it's aim.

Agreed.
clarkma5
Mustang - I wasn't talking about interior swankiness when I was talking about how the SSC was a numbers car, though it is part of the equation I guess. It's its overall handling capabilities, the way it combines astonishing speed with true livability, the way it's built, the way it's tested, the way it's supported. When you think of how well ENGINEERED each car is, the Veyron blows the Aero out of the water. Also, as it has been noted, when it comes down to top speeds in excess of 250 MPH that people might see once in a lifetime, the way the car works at more honest speeds is what counts, and the Veyron feels every penny of its price tag compared to the Aero I'd think.

Plus..."Bugatti is nothing more than a flagship project, it doesn't bring anything to the table." What? It brings SO much to the table, it is a watershed moment in automotive history.

And as a final point, why does everyone point to how VW loses money on every Veyron as a bad thing? If it costs SSC $500,000 to make the Aero and it costs VW $5,000,000 to make the Veyron, but the Veyron only costs three times as much as the SSC instead of ten times, isn't that just a point in the Veyron's favor when you're looking at these cars as a buyer? It's just that much more of a value!
MustangAficionado
They made a quad turbo W16 that they have no means of just stamping out with their current assembly lines, of course its going to cost more to make - and if it does i expect it to do what a V8 can't for that money.

The reason a government toilet seat is $500 for an aircraft carrier is the toilet seat is specifically designed for that toilet in that small of a space. If you only want 2,000 of them the presses/manufacturing equipment needed by the bidding company still cost the same as if you were to make 1M of em'. Does this mean the toilet seat is far superior, and if the government sold one to me for $400 it'd be way better than my cheap one at home that does the same thing for less? Absolutely not.

I agree that it was the watershed, but I don't see how today it brings anything to the table. I can put a steam engine in my car that'll produce 600hp, but a V8 will do just fine. I can (personally) make a V8 that'll put down more than the Veyron's W16 and make it just as reliable and put it into the same platform if you want, for 1/50th the cost and half the weight.
clarkma5
A few fair points, but overall I think you're getting the Veyron confused with its engine. There's so much more to that car than the powerplant.
Mitlov
QUOTE(MustangAficionado @ Mar 16 2009, 05:57 PM) *
The reason a government toilet seat is $500 for an aircraft carrier is the toilet seat is specifically designed for that toilet in that small of a space.


Actually, a government toilet seat is $500 so that they can buy a $5 toilet seat and spend $495 on black ops wink.gif
MustangAficionado
I'm saying i could make you engine and you put it into the veyron - not saying it's a bad platform (although heavy), just that it didn't need to be millions of $ and VW take losses on it to be as great as it is - but that was the point, to make a ridiculous engine and to get lots of press which it succeeded at. But that's why i just see it as a flagship car.
maxima302
The above image of the Veyron's interior is incorrect, and not the production interior.

Anyhow, the SL is a relative bargain in this company. But the Reveton takes the cake. Utterly badass and an excellent styling exercise with exclusivity to match.
Razor
QUOTE(maxima302 @ Mar 16 2009, 10:42 PM) *
The above image of the Veyron's interior is incorrect, and not the production interior.


Yeah. The production interior is actually better.
MustangAficionado
The Reventon looks like ass and is more over priced than the Veyron.
I swear I don't hate everything, just not a good selection for me i guess. I don't even like the SCC
Mitlov
QUOTE(maxima302 @ Mar 16 2009, 07:42 PM) *
Anyhow, the SL is a relative bargain in this company.


When you look at the SL65 AMG Black Series and say "damn, that's underpowered...but at least it's cheap," you know you're in some fucking ludicrous company.
clarkma5
QUOTE(MustangAficionado @ Mar 16 2009, 11:44 PM) *
I swear I don't hate everything, just not a good selection for me i guess. I don't even like the SCC


It's a fair point, I'm not in love with anything here. The Veyron is my fav though, mostly due to the non-Grand Sport model.
OHirtenfelder
This is directly off Bugatti's media site:
QUOTE
Boasting a maximum speed of more than 400 km per hour, the Veyron is unmatched in the super sports category. It offers a total of 1,001 HP, and its ample power reserves even at high speeds are the fabric of dreams for luxury-class limousines:


The Bugatti isn't supposed to be a track day machine, even though it would perform admirably in any company. The Veyron is supposed to offer everything in the way.

This isn't meant to say the SSC is a shit car, by no means. The SSC deserves tons of respect. The two cars should actually not even be competing.
clarkma5
QUOTE(OHirtenfelder @ Mar 17 2009, 01:27 AM) *
The two cars should actually not even be competing.


I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can say that about any two cars until everything boils down to a class by itself.

You've got the former fastest car in the world versus the current fastest car in the world. They go about it very different but they grab headlines for the same reason and both have price tags in the stratosphere. Seems like a justifiable comparison.
OHirtenfelder
Fully agreed that there are enough similarities between the two to justify a comparison, but at the same time, we have to see, that, in purpose, these are to hugley different machines. Both brilliant at what they do, but not really direct competitors.
MustangAficionado
QUOTE(OHirtenfelder @ Mar 17 2009, 12:27 AM) *
This is directly off Bugatti's media site:

Go to any magazine during the year of the Veyron's release and show me the cover that boasts it's interior luxery. Please.

Every aspect the veyron that it had be sack ridden for as been outshinesd far too easily, except for the uniqness of the engine - which is why I've been talking about it.

I've only heard of the greatness of the Veyon's other extremities (on more than this site) since it's been eclipsed. Not that the SCC is a great car, just the the Veyron should be a good deal greater to fit in its britches.
Mitlov
I think it's interesting that for all the SSC versus Veyron argument, the nothin'-but-new-bodywork Reventon is winning the poll whistle.gif
MustangAficionado
I voted for the SL rolleyes.gif
Flaw
Boo-fuckin-yah Veyron takes the lead with my vote.
Razor
QUOTE(Flaw @ Mar 18 2009, 04:00 AM) *
Boo-fuckin-yah Veyron takes the lead with my vote.


Rightfully so.
Phix
Boo-yah, it's tied with the Reventon with my vote, you fucking baby dick devourer Flaw.
Aircooled
QUOTE(Phix @ Mar 19 2009, 02:13 AM) *
Boo-yah, it's tied with the Reventon with my vote, you fucking baby dick devourer Flaw.


Bugatti +1
Halflifehavock13
Could you change my vote to the veyron? I've thought about it a lot and I can't justify giving the reventon the win when there's a few things about the styling that don't seem quite right.
clarkma5
QUOTE(Halflifehavock13 @ Mar 19 2009, 02:08 PM) *
Could you change my vote to the veyron? I've thought about it a lot and I can't justify giving the reventon the win when there's a few things about the styling that don't seem quite right.


sure
Phix
Can you change my vote to the Reventon? I voted for the Veyron.
clarkma5
QUOTE(Phix @ Mar 19 2009, 03:43 PM) *
Can you change my vote to the Reventon? I voted for the Veyron.


oookay changed.
Easton
The winner manufacturer should put "DSCOTY09 WINNER" in their future ads tongue.gif
Phix
QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Mar 19 2009, 06:54 PM) *
oookay changed.

You know, I never did vote for the Veyron.
Razor
QUOTE(Phix @ Mar 20 2009, 03:03 AM) *
You know, I never did vote for the Veyron.


That's why he never changed it.
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