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Full Version: DSCOTY '09: Sports Cars over $65k
Dieselstation Car Forums > Parking Lot > Compare & Contrast
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clarkma5
For more on the DieselStation Car of the Year '09 competition, please see this thread.

Aston Martin V8 Vantage Coupe/Roadster
Base MSRP:
$119,500 (Coupe), $132,500 (Roadster)
Available Engines: 4.7 liter DOHC 32-valve V8 with 420 HP and 346 ft.-lbs. of torque
Available Transmissions: 6-speed manual or 6-speed sequential manual transmission
Available Drivetrains: Rear wheel drive with limited slip differential
EPA Fuel Economy: 12 City/19 Highway
Curb Weight: 3595-3770 lbs.







Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1
Base MSRP:
$103,970
Available Engines: 6.2 liter OHV supercharged 16-valve V8 with 638 HP and 604 ft.-lbs. of torque
Available Transmissions: 6-speed manual transmission
Available Drivetrains: Rear wheel drive with limited-slip differential
EPA Fuel Economy: 14 City/20 Highway
Curb Weight: 3324 lbs.







Nissan GT-R
Base MSRP:
$76,840
Available Engines: 3.6 liter DOHC twin-turbocharged 24-valve V6 with 480 HP and 430 ft.-lbs. of torque
Available Transmissions: 6-speed dual-clutch transmission
Available Drivetrains: All-wheel drive
EPA Fuel Economy: 16 City/21 Highway
Curb Weight: 3836-3858 lbs.







Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe
Base MSRP:
$76,300 (Base), $87,000 (S)
Available Engines: 3.6 liter DOHC 24-valve horizontally-opposed flat-6 with 345 HP and 288 ft.-lbs. of torque, 3.8 liter DOHC 24-valve horizontally-opposed flat-6 with 385 HP and 310 ft.-lbs. of torque
Available Transmissions: 6-speed manual or 7-speed dual-clutch transmission
Available Drivetrains: Rear wheel drive (limited slip differential available) or All-wheel drive
EPA Fuel Economy: 18 City/26 Highway (Base), 17/25 (S)
Curb Weight: 3075-3329 lbs.







Tesla Roadster
Base MSRP:
$109,000
Available Engines: 375 volt electric motor with 248 HP and 276 ft.-lbs. of torque
Available Transmissions: Single-speed transmission
Available Drivetrains: Rear wheel drive
EPA Fuel Economy: N/A
Curb Weight: 2690 lbs.





moe
z r fucking 1.
clarkma5
Some tough choices here. The only two I don't want to vote for are the GT-R and the Tesla...though at least the Tesla's the lightweight of the group.

I was bored with 911s for awhile...but the facelifted 997's rearend is such sex that it just draws me to it. Plus it's a little easier to swallow the $90,000 pill that is a 911 versus these others cars which cost quite a bit more.
Mitlov
So many great options...but for me, it came down to Godzilla and the Tesla, as they're the most unprecedented. The 911 and the Vantage are just incremental improvements to an existing model...the ZR1 is also not quite out of nowhere like the GT-R and the Tesla. And between the GT-R and the Tesla, I like the GT-R better. So there you go.
Razor
Just as the GT-R leaves clark cold, the Porsche and the Aston do the same for me, so those are out. Wait, who am I kidding? This isn't process of elimination. GT-R by a staggering margin.
Bjorn
Tesla wouldn't work for what I want a sports car to do, I want a sports car that I can drive for hours and hours in. Also I see it as being more of a novelty than something that is truly useful.

ZR-1 leaves me kinda cold. After a long time of ignorance I came to embrace the C6 Z06 as a wonderful example of engineering ingenuity. It feels like a car designed by passionate men in sheds and I really came to respect it, and lust over it. The ZR-1 doesn't feel like that for me...and therefore doesn't have the same magic.

The GT-R, what can I say that hasn't already been said. It is an engineering marvel, and ring times aside, I don't doubt it's performance claims. But there are several problems with it for me.
i) It does what it does because a computer takes your inputs, decides if they are indeed correct, adjusts them and then tells the car what to do. That isn't driving IMHO, its a driving simulation that motors you around while you play.
ii) Nissan released a car which was either untested, or which they knew would break under pretty common circumstances. That either negligent or criminal.
iii) Even if you do buy a GT-R good luck using it like you want to. The car's performance is restricted, unless on a Nissan approved track, and when you're done having fun with your car on a Nissan approved track you have to pay Nissan to service the car, or void your Warranty.
iv) it has a big "VOID WARRANTY" button.

So yes it's a performance bargain, but how usable is that performance? I would be very surprised if an average consumer could extract its performance potential out of it, while staying within the confines of Nissan's customer contract.

This leaves the 911 and Vantage.

Truth be told, on a purely logical standpoint, disregarding price, I would have a difficult time deciding between the two of them. But I have lusted after a Porsche since I saw my friend's dad pull up in his 1980's 911 Turbo all those years ago, and would be as happy in a bog-standard 911 C2 as I would be in any other car, regardless of price.
fiber optic
I had to go for the Porsche but the ZR1 was a very very close 2nd.
4wheelfreak
The Vantage is sexy, but just doesn't do it from a performance standpoint. The Carrera, just from the existence of higher models (such as the GT3 and Turbo), would leave me wanting more. The Tesla is a great toy, but not a real car. The GT-R... enough has been said about it. I've gotta go with the ZR-1. I'm a big fan of the Z06, and it seems to me that with this new model, they've improved on a lot of the Z06's problems (not to say that they haven't created a few new ones). But I don't like the chargecooler, or the tacky hood, or the chrome wheels.
clarkma5
Fortunately the chrome wheels on the ZR-1 are an option.
darinzon
would've voted for gt-r, too heavy though. zr1
Frederf
There's something so delightfully unassuming about the 911 that the other cars just don't have. It's one of the few that you could go to the grocery store and not feel terribly silly in it. The Aston is a really close second though, I've really warmed to the Vantage.
Mitlov
QUOTE(Frederf @ Mar 9 2009, 03:32 AM) *
There's something so delightfully unassuming about the 911 that the other cars just don't have. It's one of the few that you could go to the grocery store and not feel terribly silly in it. The Aston is a really close second though, I've really warmed to the Vantage.


I dunno, I think the ZR-1 is about the most unassuming car here. In the eyes of non-car-people, it's just another Corvette. Fast but not exotic.

And it's easier to load groceries into a Vette's hatch than it is to get them into the backseat of a 911 smile.gif
clarkma5
QUOTE(Mitlov @ Mar 9 2009, 07:43 AM) *
I dunno, I think the ZR-1 is about the most unassuming car here.


I think you're crazy. The ZR-1 looks pretty bonkers, not "just another Corvette". The layperson may not be able to know why it looks different, but I think they can tell.
Mitlov
QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Mar 9 2009, 07:50 AM) *
I think you're crazy. The ZR-1 looks pretty bonkers, not "just another Corvette". The layperson may not be able to know why it looks different, but I think they can tell.


Fact: In Medford, Oregon, driving around in a new, no-options Carrera would be seen as more in-your-face conspicuous consumption than driving around in a ZR-1.

And I don't think the average layperson can tell a C6 Corvette from a C5 Corvette, not to mention differentiate different models of C6 Corvette without seeing them parked next to each other.
dukenukem
Understated, overstated, grand tourer, drag racer, auto-x beast, track beast .. there are only 2 car who can do all of these things effortlessly and the ZR1 does it better than anyone else.

Also, for 90% of the people, a ZR1 will just be a slightly louder corvette. No one outside of the enthusiast group going to know the difference between a Z06 and a ZR1.
Razor
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 9 2009, 11:40 AM) *
Understated, overstated, grand tourer, drag racer, auto-x beast, track beast .. there are only 2 car who can do all of these things effortlessly and the ZR1 does it better than anyone else.

Also, for 90% of the people, a ZR1 will just be a slightly louder corvette. No one outside of the enthusiast group going to know the difference between a Z06 and a ZR1.


What's the other?
dukenukem
I am going to say the 911.

and now i wait for the GTR fans to come in and prove me wrong.
Razor
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 9 2009, 11:53 AM) *
I am going to say the 911.

and now i wait for the GTR fans to come in and prove me wrong.


You're wrong.
dukenukem
QUOTE(Razor @ Mar 9 2009, 11:02 AM) *
You're wrong.

shutchoface.
Mitlov
Who the fuck drag races a 911 Carrera?
b0mb3r
ZR1....
dukenukem
QUOTE(Mitlov @ Mar 9 2009, 12:10 PM) *
Who the fuck drag races a 911 Carrera?

Guys with orange tan and $50 worth of hair products.
clarkma5
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 9 2009, 11:29 AM) *
Guys with orange tan and $50 worth of hair products.


No, that's a lowered 325i with bad rims and a tint.

Oh, and on a different topic, if I may remind some people about the GT-R:

"The GT-R Owner’s Manual expressly warns against driving with the VDC OFF (except to free the vehicle when stuck in mud or snow) to avoid damage. Repeated acceleration launches with VDC OFF have resulted in some reported instances of damage to the transaxle. Repairs for damage caused by driving with VDC OFF are expressly excluded under the terms of the Nissan GT-R New Car Limited Warranty… Except when stuck, there is no reason to drive with VDC OFF."

"Any driving with VDC OFF is documented in the vehicles' data recorders."

Just lovely. As far as I'm concerned, defeating stability/traction control systems is a necessity in any properly sporting vehicle. Also I'm not very into having big brother in my car to the extent of having a black box recorder keeping track of when I turn the electronic nannies off. Not to mention, according to Nissan Europe, the procedure to avoid warranty claims on your GT-R stemming from track use, whether or not you've got VDC on or off, is to take the car to the dealer before and after you use it on track...between those two visits, you have no warranty coverage, which is total bullshit. Plus it's just a hassle.

Overall, I find the idea that you've got all these computers to rely on and a dealer support network to use...it puts a very short lifespan on these cars. I like the idea of having a car that will be there to enjoy in a decade or more. With the GT-R, the cars will probably be there but the support may have vanished completely. You have to trust Nissan to back you up or your investment will turn to nothing at their discretion.
Benny
GT-R.

because it gets better gas mileage than the zr1 Raspberry.gif
Frederf
The ZR-1 is the least assuming car of the bunch? Now I've heard everything.
Mitlov
QUOTE(Frederf @ Mar 9 2009, 02:17 PM) *
The ZR-1 is the least assuming car of the bunch? Now I've heard everything.


Corvettes are everyman cars. Porsches aren't...at least not here. And if an Aston Martin has ever driven through Medford, I've never seen it. To someone who doesn't know cars, and can't tell unobtanium from steel or plastic at a glance, the ZR1 appears to be just another Corvette with light modifications (custom wheels and a slightly raised hood with a small window on it). Custom wheels are very common here, on all sorts of vehicles, as are various custom hoods (some actually hiding a supecharger or something; most just for show). So yeah...a new 911 would be more conspicuous than the ZR1 here.

I fully realize that in San Francisco, Portland, or Seattle, 911s are a whole hell of a lot more common and Vettes are a lot less common.
Razor
If I may remind some people about the ZR-1:

If you love that interior, get a Cobalt.
dukenukem
QUOTE(Frederf @ Mar 9 2009, 04:17 PM) *
The ZR-1 is the least assuming car of the bunch? Now I've heard everything.

You Californians don't hear much, do you?
Mitlov
QUOTE(Razor @ Mar 9 2009, 02:45 PM) *
If I may remind some people about the ZR-1:

If you love that interior, get a Cobalt.


I was going to say "and if you hate it, go slower or pay $100,000 more," but then I realized I might get caught in the crossfire between ZR1 and GT-R fanbois. And that sounds about as fun as running down the Gaza-Israel border shouting "praise Zeus and Odin! Monotheists are pussies!"
moe
I think you're mixing up common with unassuming Mitlov. Just because it's common doesn't mean it's unassuming. There are more 'Vettes and 911s here than I care to count, and honestly despite the fact that there's one around every corner, I find the 'Vette a loud, flashy looking vehicle. The 911 on the other hand, is just as common here, but flies much lower under the radar with it's more subtle elegance. Maybe it's just me, but that's the way I see things. In any case, the ZR-1 is definitely not unassuming.
Mitlov
QUOTE(moe @ Mar 9 2009, 03:07 PM) *
I think you're mixing up common with unassuming Mitlov. Just because it's common doesn't mean it's unassuming. There are more 'Vettes and 911s here than I care to count, and honestly despite the fact that there's one around every corner, I find the 'Vette a loud, flashy looking vehicle. The 911 on the other hand, is just as common here, but flies much lower under the radar with it's more subtle elegance. Maybe it's just me, but that's the way I see things. In any case, the ZR-1 is definitely not unassuming.


I think the two concepts are distinct but related. What's unassuming in isolation may not be in a particular setting. Like a narrowly-cut solid gray Armani suit, a 911 is unassuming in isolation or in a major metro area. But in middle America, it screams "I'm loaded." Likewise, the idea of putting a flag sticker on your vehicle is pretty brash in isolation (it's a car, not a military uniform), but here in Medford, a single 3"x5" flag sticker on a vehicle is barely even noticeable.
Benny
we also forgot the "look at mee" hood window.
really unassuming
DB9
QUOTE(Benny @ Mar 9 2009, 05:58 PM) *
we also forgot the "look at mee" hood window.
really unassuming


True that. "Commonfolk" would have a pretty easy time seeing those from their Escalades.
Mitlov
You mean the window that shows a grey plastic (matte aluminum?) cover immediately beneath it, simply resulting in a grey patch on the hood? It's not that wild in my opinion. It's not like you can just see the engine like on an F430. The ZR1 could have two separate wings like Duke's STI--now THAT would be in your face--but it doesn't actually have a wing at all. Nor does it have any big air scoops (here's Duke's STI again) or SL65 AMG Black Series-esque ginormous fender swells.
Frederf
QUOTE(Mitlov @ Mar 9 2009, 02:34 PM) *
Corvettes are everyman cars. Porsches aren't...at least not here.


Commonality has nothing to do with how audacious and "out there" a car's styling is. Assume there is only one 911 (base model) and one ZR1 on the planet and then compare them on styling. The ZR1 is hugely flamboyant with it's multitude of colors, textures, slots, holes, dimensions, and sharp angles. The 911 simply looks like a "nice Golf" and is pretty ho-hum, rarity aside.
Mitlov
Did you just say that the 911 looks like a Golf? huh.gif Which generation Golf are you thinking of? Cause I don't remember seeing giant rear fender swells on a Golf, nor do I remember seeing engine vents running up half the back end. I absolutely agree that a 911 is pretty conservative compared to, say, a Lambo. But to get back to what started this whole thing, I still don't see that driving one to a grocery store is less audacious than driving a Corvette to a grocery store.

QUOTE
multitude of colors, textures, slots, holes, dimensions, and sharp angles


I guess we're at an impasse, but I really don't see that when I look at this:

DB9
Okay guys, I don't think we can be the ones arguing this since we're what some would call "automotive gurus". Now, taken from my sisters point of view (she doesn't know the difference between a Ferrari and a chevrolet), she honestly thinks if she saw both on the road they would look "equally fast". And we live in a city where both are equally abundant.
4wheelfreak
I have to agree with the point that the Porsche is much more unassuming than the audacious Corvette. But that doesn't keep it from looking exotic. In fact, where the Corvette comes across as flashy and tacky, the subtle Porsche looks much more expensive. And that may be, like the Armani suit, why some people might call it 'more conspicuous.'
moe
The Corvette is kind of like a busty, blonde always wearing clothes that show-off her "assets" that waits tables at your local diner and wants to be an actress someday. The 911 is a classy, well-dressed, good-looking, brunette that went to Harvard. The busty blonde is always going to get more attention.
Bjorn
^Is the GT-R then an ugly girl who was turned into a cyborg?
dukenukem
QUOTE(moe @ Mar 10 2009, 03:49 AM) *
The Corvette is kind of like a busty, blonde always wearing clothes that show-off her "assets" that waits tables at your local diner and wants to be an actress someday. The 911 is a classy, well-dressed, good-looking, brunette that went to Harvard. The busty blonde is always going to get more attention.

Ok we get it. the Corvette is for hillbillies and Porsches are for wine sipping snobs. Move on.
Aircooled
I think if anyone on this board was handed the keys to a ZR1, a big ass grin would be on their face.

As good as a car the GT-R is, I don't think it would have the same effect.
moe
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 10 2009, 05:46 PM) *
Ok we get it. the Corvette is for hillbillies and Porsches are for wine sipping snobs. Move on.


that wasn't my point. my point was it's a bit rougher around the edges, and a lot flashier than the 911. i voted zr-1 for the record. it's the best performance car here by a huge margin.
dukenukem
QUOTE(moe @ Mar 10 2009, 11:29 AM) *
that wasn't my point. my point was it's a bit rougher around the edges, and a lot flashier than the 911. i voted zr-1 for the record. it's the best performance car here by a huge margin.

Not sure i agree.


Not the worlds most understated car now is it?
Bjorn
It's not, but put it up against many of it's rivals and I think relatively speaking it's a very clean design.

The ZR-1 looks like a tuned up Z06 IMHO, more like something Calloway (sp?) would produce rather than something from the GM factory.
moe
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 10 2009, 07:43 PM) *
Not sure i agree.
http://www.autofans.us/images/Porsche/2009...era%204%204.jpg

Not the worlds most understated car now is it?


No, it's not understated. But flashier than a 'Vette?
Mitlov
Arguing whether a 911 or a Corvette is flashier, or more showy, is a little like arguing whether Adriana Lima or Jessica Biel or Zhang Ziyi is the sexiest. As much as we'd like to believe that these things are objectively verifiable, that there's no element of subjectivity or local culture to what is flashy or unassuming and what isn't, I think it IS ultimately a subjective thing influenced by personal taste and local culture.
moe
Adriana Lima is sexiest. Not subjective.
dukenukem
QUOTE(moe @ Mar 10 2009, 12:58 PM) *
No, it's not understated. But flashier than a 'Vette?

They are both equally flashy.
Benny
my cock is pretty flashy.










but thats what happens when you go overboard with the be-dazzler
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