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Dieselstation Car Forums > Parking Lot > Compare & Contrast
Mitlov
Which is more important to you--the drive wheels or the transmission? And for purposes of this thread, DSG, CVT, SMG all count as automatic transmissions. Manual means a clutch pedal for purposes of this poll.
moe
TBH, I don't think any of it really matters. It all comes down to how the car comes together as a whole for me. FWD is not an automatic fail for me, as I believe there are some truly great FWD cars (ITR, CTR, Peugeot 306 GTi-6, etc), and at the same time RWD and AWD aren't an automatic win for me as there are a lot of them that I don't think are great (300C, A4 Quattro, etc). On the same note there are some great autos out there as well (the DSG in the GTi for example), and terrible manuals (the 5MT on the previous generation Corolla which I used to own had me begging for a manual). So I don't have a preference, it's all about how the car performs on a whole. DSG GTi over a manual, V6 'Stang...yes please.
fiber optic
RWD > FWD
and no amount of transmission awesome can ever change that
clarkma5
I'd rather have a manual in a well-sorted FWD car. The key point being "well-sorted", I guess...a good car is great to drive regardless of which wheels drive it.
Synesthesia
I agree with the fact that it really depends on the situation, but my gut says I'd rather have manual FWD than auto RWD/AWD.
Vadvagool
Manual/FWD

'Cause I've pretty much only driven FWD.
Razor
<===
dukenukem
QUOTE(fiber optic @ Mar 4 2009, 12:06 PM) *
RWD > FWD
and no amount of transmission awesome can ever change that

Crown Vic Vs Integra Type-R
OHirtenfelder
Very much dependant on the actual two cars being compared, but I must agree here, and say FWD MT. Like moe said GTi with MT; there aren't many things to beat that.
Frederf
The poll's question is too poorly constructed for me to give a meaningful answer.
Mitlov
QUOTE(Frederf @ Mar 5 2009, 12:38 AM) *
The poll's question is too poorly constructed for me to give a meaningful answer.


Would you rather have a well-sorted rear-wheel-drive car with an automatic transmission, or a well-sorted front-wheel-drive car with a manual?
moe
I just didn't vote, there are too many exceptions on either side. Specific cars I could make a judgment.
Bjorn
I got to thinking, the latest crop of FWD hot hatches is pretty good IMO...much better than the current crop of RWD or AWD stuff in the same price category.

The one exception is the STI, but that doesn't have a manual option here.

If we got the Focus RS and Renault Megane here, I would be fine with FWD and MT.
dukenukem
QUOTE(Bjorn @ Mar 5 2009, 09:05 AM) *
The one exception is the STI, but that doesn't have a manual option here.

What?
Bjorn
^sorry, morning confusion.

What I meant to say is that the Focus RS and Megan RS were better cars, regardless of what wheels are driven, than anything in the same range. And that I would gladly have one of them with a Manual over a RWD or AWD car with an auto.

The only car I could think of that I liked more around the price point of the RS's was the STI...and that ia a manual only...so wasn't factored in my thinking.
midnightdorifto
Okay, I've gotta go ahead and throw this out - define automatic and manual. Because if we're talking about Scuderias and eGear and PDK, then I would accept the RWD/"automatic". But if these non-torque converter (not sure about the PDK, or DSG for that matter, do those have torque converters? I want to say they have to...) transmissions count, then I'm limiting my answer to that. Even then I think fiber might be right on the money.

Still, that is a hell of a question, not sure what concentric circle of hell you have to be at to have those two options open to you.
Mitlov
QUOTE(midnightdorifto @ Mar 5 2009, 11:41 AM) *
Okay, I've gotta go ahead and throw this out - define automatic and manual. Because if we're talking about Scuderias and eGear and PDK, then I would accept the RWD/"automatic". But if these non-torque converter (not sure about the PDK, or DSG for that matter, do those have torque converters? I want to say they have to...) transmissions count, then I'm limiting my answer to that. Even then I think fiber might be right on the money.


See the original post:

QUOTE
And for purposes of this thread, DSG, CVT, SMG all count as automatic transmissions. Manual means a clutch pedal for purposes of this poll.
OHirtenfelder
QUOTE
And for purposes of this thread, DSG, CVT, SMG all count as automatic transmissions. Manual means a clutch pedal for purposes of this poll.

Mitlov did clarify this in the first post. I know he didn't mention every single possible derivative of ' automatic, or automated manual or torque converter, etc.' on the market, but he did say that he would define manual as being one with clutch pedal.
That's how I understood it.

edit - sorry, posted that while you posted. my bad
Aircooled
FWD MT, I as well as many others here are manual whores. Call it weird, but one of the many reasons I prefer manual is just getting to use my left foot. I have noticed occasionally driving the parents' car(s) for extended periods of time gets my one hip stiff, it could be because the way I sit or just something but it never happens with a manual car.
Razor
QUOTE(midnightdorifto @ Mar 5 2009, 02:41 PM) *
Okay, I've gotta go ahead and throw this out - define automatic and manual. Because if we're talking about Scuderias and eGear and PDK, then I would accept the RWD/"automatic". But if these non-torque converter (not sure about the PDK, or DSG for that matter, do those have torque converters? I want to say they have to...) transmissions count, then I'm limiting my answer to that. Even then I think fiber might be right on the money.

Still, that is a hell of a question, not sure what concentric circle of hell you have to be at to have those two options open to you.


DSG and PDK both are free of the plague that is a torque converter.
Mitlov
QUOTE(Razor @ Mar 5 2009, 03:05 PM) *
DSG and PDK both are free of the plague that is a torque converter.


True, but in my mind, "manual" means "manually-operated clutch." It's a fairly accurate term that relies upon a critical difference in driver input from all other transmissions.

I use the term "automatic" simply to mean "not a manual." The term actually has no meaning beyond that, as twin-clutch transmissions are fundamentally different from torque converter transmissions, which in turn are fundamentally different from continuously variable transmissions. Despite the imprecision of the term "automatic," I use it to refer to any car with two pedals, and if I want to be more specific, I say "twin-clutch" or "torque-converter" or "CVT."
b0mb3r
I think i am going to steal quote from Edmunds:
"The Scirocco proves once again that the front tires can do all the work in a sport coupe and make you like it; too bad it's not coming to the U.S."

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...rticleId=126390
speedyK
QUOTE(Mitlov @ Mar 6 2009, 12:38 AM) *
True, but in my mind, "manual" means "manually-operated clutch."


I don't think I've ever seen anyone use their hand to operate the clutch! wink.gif

I would say the term "manual" can no longer be used in the literal sense of "operating the gear selection by hand (and also entailing the use of your left leg for clutch operation)" because it is no longer a straight choice of "stick it in Drive and let the slush box do the selection" or "manual".

Now, with paddles, etc. for DSGs as well Tiptronics, etc. you really have to make the differentiation between a two pedal or three pedal set up.


As for which is best, I think my fwd, manual is as almost as much fun (with judicious use of the handbrake) on a loose surface as my 4wd auto was.


But why only these two options? I've owned or own almost every variation (except fwd auto, but I've driven that zzzzzzzzzz) and a rwd manual* is hard to beat though a nicely rear-biassed 4wd manual can be fun too!




*Front-engined if you want to keep it easy. Mid-engined or rear-engined if you like responsive steering and are quick at applying opposite lock! biggrin.gif
Mitlov
QUOTE(speedyK @ Mar 6 2009, 05:46 PM) *
I don't think I've ever seen anyone use their hand to operate the clutch! wink.gif




wink.gif

Besides, "manual" can mean not only "by hand" but also "by human effort."

QUOTE
Now, with paddles, etc. for DSGs as well Tiptronics, etc. you really have to make the differentiation between a two pedal or three pedal set up.


Which is precisely what I did in the first post.

QUOTE
As for which is best, I think my fwd, manual is as almost as much fun (with judicious use of the handbrake) on a loose surface as my 4wd auto was.
But why only these two options? I've owned or own almost every variation (except fwd auto, but I've driven that zzzzzzzzzz) and a rwd manual* is hard to beat – though a nicely rear-biassed 4wd manual can be fun too!


Because I'm not going for what's "best." I'm going for which combination is the lesser evil in your mind.
350Z
Are we talking comparable cars here?
moe
QUOTE(Mitlov @ Mar 7 2009, 01:41 PM) *
Because I'm not going for what's "best." I'm going for which combination is the lesser evil in your mind.


neither are evil.
goota
this is a terrible question. there is simply no way i will own an AT car and expect to get pleasure from it like I do a MT. And by the way, all the cars i own have to pleasure me or else i would sell that shit in a heartbeat, like a sex slave.
speedyK
QUOTE(Mitlov @ Mar 7 2009, 10:41 AM) *
Besides, "manual" can mean not only "by hand" but also "by human effort."


You are right it is in the dictionary as such but that's only because people refer to work done by manual labourers (manus = hand in Latin, i.e. these people are using their hands to work) as work achieved by human effort. Goes against the grain if you had a classical education wink.gif

QUOTE(Mitlov @ Mar 7 2009, 10:41 AM) *
Because I'm not going for what's "best." I'm going for which combination is the lesser evil in your mind.


"Best" for what? Driving pleasure? Depends on the circumstances!

In most situations perhaps 75% , my fwd manual hatch is the best choice all things considerd. But, sometimes, a rwd/awd auto is far better. Horses for courses!

I just analysed my cars:

2 fwd manuals

2 rwd/awd auto

and

3 rwd manuals

So, on that basis, it's undecided between the two groups for me but, for some clearly illogical reason, I actually seem to prefer something else! biggrin.gif
Mitlov
QUOTE(speedyK @ Mar 10 2009, 03:13 PM) *
You are right it is in the dictionary as such but that's only because people refer to work done by manual labourers (manus = hand in Latin, i.e. these people are using their hands to work) as work achieved by human effort. Goes against the grain if you had a classical education wink.gif


Not manual labor in your book?



QUOTE
"Best" for what? Driving pleasure?


Yes. For your subjective driving pleasure.
speedyK
"Manual" labour? Well, he's certainly labouring, and he'll probably be using his hands to load /unload which would clearly make him a manual labourer.

But is this "manual" labour? She's carrying something too although she's not using her hands in any way to do so. However, she is certainly working and she's not using a machine and it will be tiring eventually, so it is labour but I wouldn't call the transportation part "manual" labour.


This is labour, child labour, and manual labour too:


Conversely, these guys are using a machine but it's heavy and in their hands and they are using a lot of energy to control it, thus for me, despite the machine doing the majority of the work, this is heavy manual labour:


This guy's clearly using his hands and his feet in his work and, unless he puts it on autopilot, the job demands human effort, so this manual labour?


Or this?



Subjective driving pleasure?

Like I said depends on the circumstances. If I'm gridlocked in the heat of summer, auto transmission and air con are most important for my driving pleasure...

If I had to have just one car, other factors than mere driving pleasure would have to take precedent even for a petrolhead like me. I'd have to choose the one that could cope best for taking the whole family and maybe friends, or getting a load of stuff from the hardware store. Commuted today in a 698cc, yes, 0.7 litre 3 cylinder 2-seater auto (in manual mode) in the morning, but took the 4.7 litre V8 7-seater SUV to get a roll of carpet from a store.


An SUV is overkill most of the time, but there are times when it makes life a lot easier. And I could always get some "driving pleasure" on a driving sim, but a sim wouldn't get my carpet home.
Mitlov
Dude, you're REALLY over-analyzing this. Both the "what does 'manual' mean" tangent and the actual question. Goota and some others have said that they'd rather have a FWD MT car than a RWD AT car; fiber optic and some other have said the opposite. Moe has said that he's not inherently drawn one way or the other. Nobody was talking about what is best to go buy carpet, or what is best when renting a moving van, or what is best for a self-propelled light artillery piece.
speedyK
Ask a silly question... laugh.gif
Cyclone
FWD MT. Only a douche drives an AWD with an auto tongue.gif
Razor
QUOTE(Cyclone @ Mar 21 2009, 09:17 PM) *
FWD MT. Only a douche drives an AWD with an auto tongue.gif


You can have a Yaris, I'll have me a GT-R, thaaaaaaaaaaaank you.

...asshat. tongue.gif
Aircooled
Fuck the GT-R, at least the Yaris won't leave you sitting with a blown up trans.
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