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leif
Ok, I'm sick of winding road coming out with this stream of non stop bullshit. They make wild claims about upcoming models, quoting members of the automotive industry, posting Photoshop’s with famous spy photographers names underneath them to give them credit...this is bullshit, and needs to stop.

I’m not delusional enough to think that I can go up against Winding road my self, I'm sure they employ all sorts of Lawyers to deal with the many "cease and desist" letters they surely receive on a daily basis...but I think a good place to start is to edit their Wiki entry. Right now it says:

QUOTE
Winding Road is a digital automotive magazine owned by Absolute Multimedia, Inc., of Austin, Texas, which also publishes 'The Absolute Sound' and 'The Perfect Vision.'. It focuses on enthusiast-oriented vehicles. Winding Road has a monthly digital magazine and a daily website.

The magazine's editor-in-chief, David E. Davis, Jr., is well-known in the automobile industry, having founded Automobile Magazine and taken Car and Driver to prominence in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. Winding Road's editor is Reilly Brennan and its art director is Nate Luzod.


now I’m good at technical writing, but no good at writing entries for Wikipedia, nor adding photographs and such. So would someone like to help me edit this wiki?

Cheers

EDIT: This is what I wrote, its short, but concise.

QUOTE
Winding road, while providing general automotive news, often claims to be privy to “Inside Information” from the automotive industry, and posts “scoops” on their websites, the “scoops are normally accompanied by photographs of the models in question, with captions discussing their authenticity. These “Scoops” are often fabrications of Winding Road.

Recent examples of fabrications appearing on the Winding Road website include photographs of a Porsche Cayman, which was modified using an editing suite to complement an article about an upcoming Ferrari Model[1], and doctored pictures of a four seat Honda S2000[2].

Often the original Photographs doctored by Winding Road can be found using Google’s image search services. The website does not claim to own the images they post, however a Winding Road watermark is often added, as well as the names of noted Automotive Spy Photographers, such as Hans G. Lehmann.
Halflifehavock13
It'd be worth mentioning the infamous supervette/z07/blue ray
leif
I would like to make the wiki article very comprehensive, if you want to write something about that with references and such I would eb happy to add it.

I'm also going to write the editor of the magazine and ask him to comment on some of the content.
Marien
Don't you think that all those lawyers you talk about won't take 5 minutes to remove the negative things in the article?
leif
then we can put it back, thats the beauty of Wiki
Phix
leif, you're dumb.

It'll get edited, the neutrality of the article will be put into question, and then your IP will be blocked from editing anymore entries.
mopho
It must be pretty damn boring up there in Winnipeg rolleyes.gif
leif
how is the nutrality of the article in question?

everything I wrote is true, I put references in, I didn't use any words that could be construed as negative...and I didnt use any bias writing what I wrote (I edited what I posted here)

and phix, you don't need to start every reply with an insult, thats something boost would do.
White RSX
QUOTE(leif @ Jan 5 2007, 01:03 PM) *
and phix, you don't need to start every reply with an insult, thats something boost would do.

Oh fuck you.

=(
Phix
QUOTE(leif @ Jan 5 2007, 04:03 PM) *
how is the nutrality of the article in question?

everything I wrote is true, I put references in, I didn't use any words that could be construed as negative...and I didnt use any bias writing what I wrote (I edited what I posted here)

and phix, you don't need to start every reply with an insult, thats something boost would do.

Where are your references? I just see links to Winding Road and Winding Road Daily News.

EDIT: And if you think those [1] and [2] links lead to anywhere... they don't.
DaGonz
I think that Leif submitted an article to Winding Road.. and was rejected.... canadian.gif

Think for a minute...

with the competitive nature of the automotive media, if evena shred of the wild claims that Leif has made against Winding Road were true, they would be sued, their advertisiers would back out and the entire venture shut down.

There are also the libel and slander issues to deal with...
leif
go to the website and read somr of the stuff they say gonzo.

Then read the "privacy policy" where they outline their legal mumbo jumbo.

This:
QUOTE
Various pages on this website contain certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1993, as amended, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended, which are intended to be covered by the safe harbors created thereby. Words such as "expects," "intends," "plans," "projects," "believes," "estimates," and similar expressions are used to identify such forward-looking statements.

Forward-looking statements relating to Absolute Multimedia, Inc. operations are based on management's expectations, estimates and projections about Absolute Multimedia, Inc. in effect on the date the statements were made. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve certain risks, uncertainties and assumptions that are difficult to predict. Further, certain forward-looking statements are based upon assumptions as to future events that may not prove to be accurate. Therefore, actual outcomes and results may differ materially from what is expressed or forecast in such forward-looking statements. Absolute Multimedia, Inc. undertakes no obligation to subsequently update or revise the forward-looking statements contained on this website to reflect events or circumstances after the date of posting.

is how they get away with it.
mopho
QUOTE(leif @ Jan 5 2007, 07:39 AM) *
Ok, I'm sick of winding road coming out with this stream of non stop bullshit. They make wild claims about upcoming models, quoting members of the automotive industry, posting Photoshop’s with famous spy photographers names underneath them to give them credit...this is bullshit, and needs to stop.




Do you have any proof to support your accusations or are you just fabricating stuff because you believe it to be true? (pot calling the kettle black)


QUOTE
Winding road, while providing general automotive news, often claims to be privy to “Inside Information” from the automotive industry, and posts “scoops” on their websites, the “scoops are normally accompanied by photographs of the models in question, with captions discussing their authenticity. These “Scoops” are often fabrications of Winding Road.

Recent examples of fabrications appearing on the Winding Road website include photographs of a Porsche Cayman, which was modified using an editing suite to complement an article about an upcoming Ferrari Model[1], and doctored pictures of a four seat Honda S2000[2].

Often the original Photographs doctored by Winding Road can be found using Google’s image search services. The website does not claim to own the images they post, however a Winding Road watermark is often added, as well as the names of noted Automotive Spy Photographers, such as Hans G. Lehmann.



First off, creating photo illustrations of what upcoming cars MIGHT look like is a big part of those famous spy photographers business. Hans Lehmann/Hidden Image and Brenda Priddy and Company do more than just spy photos and they are more than just one person.
The reason why Hans Lehmann/ Hidden Image appears on the photo is because his company created the doctored photos!!!

Secondly, if they were stealing photos by doing a google search then they would open themselves up to a copyright infringement lawsuit. Copyright includes modifying someone else's photos

The reason they can use such photos is because the agencies that make the photo illustrations bought the rights to modify the photos for such purposes
Spy photo agencies often buy other photographers images and then put their name on it.

Additionally, ALL the magazines have been printing these kinds of digital photo illustrations for years and before that it was airbrushed photos of other cars made to look like a possible upcoming model, and before that it was drawings.
This practice is not exclusive to Winding Road

For example, recently almost all the mags published pics of the upcoming Lotus Esprit, the illustration was based on a Lamborghini Gallardo

None of these magazines, including Winding Road, claim that these illustrations or "scoops" are 100% correct, and that is why they have the boilerplate. IT'S CALLED SPECULATION!

As for the super Z06 prank, there was already spy photos and talk of the car going around BEFORE they played their joke (which they owned up to), so they were not entirely fabricating the information


I assume this is yours too...

QUOTE
Winging Road also claims to keep several spy photographers on staff, such as Hans G. Lehmann
...our spy shot photographer, Hans Lehmann, caught the 4×4 612 in testing in Maranello...


Really? I don't see Hans Lehmann's name listed on the masthead of the magazine.

It's common practice for mags to refer to the person who shot the picture for an article as "our photographer" even if they are not full time staff. It happens to me often (this month even).



But of course, as an expert, you really showed them rolleyes.gif
Phix
I love you, mopho.
PBB
Hey leaf, you know those stupid fanboys who keep editing the Supra page to say that the Supra will return? You're being even worse than them.
leif
I don't see how.
midnightdorifto
QUOTE(Phix @ Jan 6 2007, 03:31 AM) *
I love you, mopho.

+1
Cyclone
lol leif being arrogant got thrown back in his face.
skr
Leif.

It is painfully obvious that nobody here really cares about your crusade in exposing Winding Road's "antics" and making a difference in life, much less anything else you have to say, unless they just want to bash you.

I would just quit now, because as far as the rest of DS is concerned, anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of DieselStation.
leif
skr, I am mainly joking...I did add something to the wiki...but I really don't care what alot of people here think about it...especially the ones who take me way to seriously. Thats not to say I don't like DS, I like it alot...but some people need to chill out, or find a hobby.

It is true that I don't like Winding road, and personally I don't understand how they can operate, nor why atcual journalists would attach their names to something which is so fradulant...but hay, lots of things piss me off.
Phix
leif, I was going through the things you've changed on Wikipedia as a whole and I can't help but wonder about this change you made to the Corvette Leaf Springs article....

BEFORE LEIF:

QUOTE
Suffice to say, however, the stock suspension is plenty capable. The stock 2006 [[Corvette Z06]] posted a time of 7:42.99 around Germany’s tremendously challenging [[Nürburgring]] racetrack. Only a handful of cars in history have gone faster; neither the [[Ferrari F430]], nor any [[Lamborghini]], are among them.


AFTER LEIF:

QUOTE
Suffice to say, however, the stock suspension is plenty capable. The 2006 [[Corvette Z06]] posted a time of 7:42.99 around Germany’s [[Nürburgring]].


Hmm, what's the matter with a little extra praise for the Z06? Does it pain you that much/are you that biased?

Oh, yeah, it's true. There are no Ferrari's after the Z06. Just a bunch of Radicals, Ultimas, and Porsches. But the Lamborghini LP640 lapped it in 7:40. But, really, I want to hear WHY you still went and wholly altered that sentence?


EDIT: Oh, yeah, and leif? The little edit you made under the Aston Martin's famous owners wiki? Clarkson DOES OWN A DB9. Specifically, his wife. He has said so hundreds of times in his columns. Hmm, got a bit of 'Winding Road' inside of you?
mopho
QUOTE(leif @ Jan 6 2007, 11:30 AM) *
skr, I am mainly joking...I did add something to the wiki...but I really don't care what alot of people here think about it...especially the ones who take me way to seriously. Thats not to say I don't like DS, I like it alot...but some people need to chill out, or find a hobby.


rolleyes.gif No you're not! you were ranting in the other thread too! Don't start backpedaling now because you got owned.
The only person who needs to chill out and find a hobby is you!

So where is your evidence that they are fraudulent?


It's simple really, it you don't like Winding Road so much, don't read it!
leif
QUOTE(Phix @ Jan 6 2007, 01:38 PM) *
leif, I was going through the things you've changed on Wikipedia as a whole and I can't help but wonder about this change you made to the Corvette Leaf Springs article....

BEFORE LEIF:
AFTER LEIF:
Hmm, what's the matter with a little extra praise for the Z06? Does it pain you that much/are you that biased?

Oh, yeah, it's true. There are no Ferrari's after the Z06. Just a bunch of Radicals, Ultimas, and Porsches. But the Lamborghini LP640 lapped it in 7:40. But, really, I want to hear WHY you still went and wholly altered that sentence?
EDIT: Oh, yeah, and leif? The little edit you made under the Aston Martin's famous owners wiki? Clarkson DOES OWN A DB9. Specifically, his wife. He has said so hundreds of times in his columns. Hmm, got a bit of 'Winding Road' inside of you?


I changed the Z06 article to make it more streamlined...which is something Wikipedia atcually asks its members to do.

Phix, I'm done with you...your the most childish member on DS right now...grow up and I'll take you off of ignore.

MOPHO: tell you what, I can't prove that anything on winding road isnt true...however I have not been able to find a single source they claim to quote...if your so interested in it, why don't you prove to me that they are not full of shit. In fact do your best to prove that the 2010 Ferrari Dino article wasnt fabricated, and I'll leave DS never to return.

That should be incentive enough for you.
mopho
QUOTE(leif @ Jan 6 2007, 11:57 AM) *
MOPHO: tell you what, I can't prove that anything on winding road isnt true...however I have not been able to find a single source they claim to quote...if your so interested in it, why don't you prove to me that they are not full of shit. In fact do your best to prove that the 2010 Ferrari Dino article wasnt fabricated, and I'll leave DS never to return.

That should be incentive enough for you.


I am not the one posting bullshit up on an encyclopedia that people use to get "legit" information. The burden of proof is on you!!!!! You are being completely childish and irresponsible!!!!!



I already proved to you that you are full of shit about the photos. Had you taken the time to even look around, you'd have noticed that other mags and websites often put up the same spy photos (I saw that Dino picture in other auto news pubs too) and that often it will say "photo illustration by Hans Lehmann/Hidden Image or Brenda Priddy or....... You would have been able to deduce that they are also in the business of creating photo illustrations

Besides the obvious, you know how else I know.... Because I am an automotive photographer and I do work for a pretty big car magazine and I asked about it a while back.

Now, the automotive industry is a highly secretive business with a lot riding on it, if someone leaks info to a magazine, of course that mag won't reveal their source as that person at the company could lose their job. Standard journalism practice not to reveal the source
When this information is leaked, the photo illustrators and writers go to work with the little information they have and create a SPECULATIVE illustration and story of what the car MIGHT look like. Sometimes they are making something out of nothing and are way off base, sometimes they come close.
On some occasions the car companies themselves leak info as it is beneficial for them to create a buzz or to see what the reaction is.

I would say that the people who work at these magazines know just a bit more than you about what they are doing

Again, you are the one making accusations, the burden of proof is on you!



I don't spend enough time on this forum to give a flying fuck on a rolling donut as to whether you stay or go, but it seems everyone else agrees you are being a twit
leif
have you even gone to the website and looked around.

Based on how angry you are getting I'm gonna say no.

Maybe you are not big enough in the automotive photography world to have a picture of yours taken, PSed and posted as a "genuine official type picture"...maybe you are, I dont know. But back in the latter part of 2006 Winding road posted pictures of a Porsche Cayman which was PSed to look like a ferrari, and the website said they were official photographs they obtained from a leak at Ferrari. One of our members atcually found the original pictures, of the Cayman, before they were doctored...the pictures were obviously faked, and yet this publication claimed they obtained them from Ferrari.

The article to go along with the photographs might have been real, however given the fact that it contained lots of errors, and was mated to fake pictures, being claimed to be the genuine article, I'm gonna say the entire article was a scam.

This is not an isolated incident, as the S2000 thread and numerous other examples prove.

Are you atcually defending this kind of action...I can't beleive that you, as a member of the automotive press, atcually could defend this kind of behavior.
mopho
QUOTE(leif @ Jan 6 2007, 01:17 PM) *
This is not an isolated incident, as the S2000 thread and numerous other examples prove.

Are you atcually defending this kind of action...I can't beleive that you, as a member of the automotive press, atcually could defend this kind of behavior.


The only thing that the S2000 thread proves it that you are making a fool of yourself there too

Do you even know what SPECULATION means?!

speculate |?speky??l?t| verb [ intrans. ] 1 form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence : my colleagues speculate about my private life | [with clause ] observers speculated that the authorities wished to improve their image.

Car magazines have been SPECULATING about upcoming cars since before you were even born


You can bitch all you want on this forum, but going and posting it on the encyclopedia without proof was irresponsible and wreaks of the same thing you are "accusing" them of doing rolleyes.gif

Grow up!!
leif
Speculation: I think Ferrari might be coming out with a new model, this is what it might look like.

Not Speculation: Our sources say this is a fact, here are pictures to prove it.

I'm done with replying to you, you're obvioulsy looking for a fight, go find someone else.

As far as I'm concerned I have said everything there is to say about this...sorry if it pissed anyone off...
mopho
QUOTE(leif @ Jan 6 2007, 01:58 PM) *
Speculation: I think Ferrari might be coming out with a new model, this is what it might look like.

Not Speculation: Our sources say this is a fact, here are pictures to prove it.

I'm done with replying to you, you're obvioulsy looking for a fight, go find someone else.

As far as I'm concerned I have said everything there is to say about this...sorry if it pissed anyone off...


Not looking for a fight, I'd much rather not waste my time on you and I would not have given a shit had you not posted it on Wikipedia.
Since you think you are appointed to " rid the internet of this tabloid-esque bullshit", I felt the need to call you out on it.


It says clearly that their sources have confirmed several points they have been kicking around, nothing about their photos being provided by Ferrari. While the opening paragraph may be a bit misleading, it becomes clear in the story that they are making an educated guess from the information they have. You'd have to be an idiot to think that those photos are real. Four years before release, the designers are still debating what the final concept will be.


AGAIN, this has been going on for years with all different publications

This image appeared in many magazines claiming to be the new Lotus Esprit and they are still publishing similar photos even a year later (this months road and track has a new photo based off a Gallardo)




Oh, lookie what we have here




Did you even write the magazine a letter asking for an explanation first before you went and published your agenda on wikipedia without any evidence?
midnightdorifto
Emphasis added in bold...
QUOTE
We’re staking the clearest claim yet on what is the most turbulent developing story in the Future Drives world, and you know that we would have it no other way. What you’re looking at in these exclusive images is the 2010 Ferrari 420 Dino. Yes, we car people do tend to pronounce breathlessly that every Ferrari is the “most important model in the company’s history,” but are you going to argue with us on this one? The Dino represents territory absolutely never explored by Ferrari on a couple of key levels and even old Enzo’s legs must be shaking out of sheer nerves in the Great Hereafter. Our sources in Italy close to the project have confirmed several points that we’ve been reading, hearing, and beating around lately. First, the whole project only this past September finally got the super-full OK from everyone involved and thus the model will debut as a 2010 edition at some point during the 2009 show season. Second, the name for the car is almost surely set to include Enzo’s son—with a 99.6 percent rating of certainty. Given Ferrari’s recent naming tendencies, too, we and our contacts are sure the full eventual title will be “420 Dino,” or something quite close to it. The only remaining hesitation about using the Dino name is that the reference to Enzo’s son is feared to signify nothing to new generations of buyers in every market but Europe.

There is a fervent debate happening, too, in the offices at Ferrari, Pininfarina, and Ferrari’s mother company, Gruppo Fiat. Whereas all indicators still lean toward the Dino being a coupe-cabriolet with folding hard top (what you see here), there is fresh hubbub afoot about launching first with a berlinetta hard-top GTB in late 2009, followed by a targa GTS version in late 2010, à la 246 Dino GT and GTS from 1969 and 1972, and 308 GTB and GTS from 1975 and 1977.

Either way, it’s one heck of a huge investment on Ferrari’s part. Yearly Dino production is figured to be anywhere between 3500 and 5000 units, and Ferrari has actively sought solid partners to help in all of this in order to lower and spread out the massive ramp-up costs. One clear partner is Alcoa, which will make the car’s aluminum space-frame chassis in the freshly opened facility in Modena, Italy.

Recent Hidden Image spy shots of a test mule wearing a heavily modified F430 costume give away impressively little in regards to what we could eventually be looking at. (But was this the Dino? Or a V-10 F430? Do read on…) One thing is for certain: The Dino will not have any sort of rear-mid V-6 or V-8 to mimic either the F430 or original Dino layout, but a front-mid V-8. Some months ago, our sources confirmed as well, the heavily camouflaged “bread van” testers spotted by snappers cruising around Maranello and Modena included not only the next fixed-roof Maserati Mistral coupe, but also an early Dino coupe-cabriolet. Upon further digging around, it turns out Maserati’s new 2008 coupe was originally approved in 2004 as a smaller coupe-cabriolet and not the Quattroporte-based Mercedes-Benz CL-fighter it has now become. Maserati simply ran out of money to produce it and, following the whole Ferrari-Maserati-Alfa shuffle in 2005, the same basic car project has reemerged as this Ferrari Dino.

When one enters into discussion of the engine pegged for the Dino, there emerges a fine can of worms. Most indicators, however, point to an almost entirely new all-aluminum 90-degree 4.2-liter V-8 (only loosely based on the one that’s been around for a while) situated low within the chassis in a way very similar to that of the Aston Martin V8 Vantage—i.e., almost all in back of the front axle in order to optimize driving dynamics and weight distribution. In fact, recent sightings of a V8 Vantage being tested by several Ferrari engineers around Maranello lend copious weight to this argument.

The canned vermin referred to involves Ferrari now having to uprate the F430’s power and torque prior to the launch of the Dino. This is engineers have also been spotted, by the by, joyriding in a BMW M6.

As for the Dino’s outer shell, we’re looking at carbon fiber panels all the way around and none of our sources disagree with this. This makes sense also seeing as both the 8C Competizione and what we’re calling the Mistral are due to use this same material approach, albeit on a steel chassis.

Another side story that has been verified by a few Italian sources is that once Ferrari and Maserati officially split in early 2005, Fiat Auto—new caretaker of Maserati—because the 4.2-liter V-8 in the Dino is set to put out just a tick less than the 480 horses now enjoyed by the 4.3-liter V-8 in the F430. Plans now have the F430 getting a newly developed 5.0-liter V-10 good for something approaching 550 horsepower by late 2008. Once the F430 coupe and spider both have this upgrade, then the next evolution for the F430 family at the end of 2010 or soon thereafter is a completely redesigned exoskeleton along with a new name. Recently, Ferrari and its chairman Sergio Marchionne even came close to killing the 8C Competizione altogether (after all, the smaller coupe-cabriolet project had passed to Ferrari, and cost-cutting was the order of the day), until they all resolved to adapt the “M145” Quattroporte chassis to fit. Why Alfa Romeo is now suddenly rushing to complete the 8C Competizione these past six months and grab some attention is that Alfa wants to also launch a small car based heavily on the new and hugely successful Fiat Grande Punto, but feels that to do so and not lose its passionate, sporty reputation, it is best to get a big ol’ Alfa V-8 sex machine out there first.

But for the 8C Competizione to do all this for Alfa and on this new rushed schedule, an in-the-family agreement was made that both the 8C Competizione and Mistral would stop at 450 horsepower in order not to steal the show from the Dino once it launches. After all, doesn’t it seem strange to anyone but us that the 4.7-liter V-8 in these two hotties will make only 450 horsepower? That’s plenty of power in the general sense, but, according to our contacts in Turin, that engine could easily make 520 horses and beyond. But Alfa in particular has these other bigger product plans, and so the Mistral must follow, and Dino is set free to drink the milk in the winner’s circle of product planning.

Ferrari wants very much for the Dino to be able to base price out at a maximum of €130,000 ($166,000 at the time of this writing) or preferably €120,000 ($153,000), and they are currently in deep discussions about possibly lowering the price even a bit more and whether or not this might affect the brand image at all.

We say that if they build “a car for the ages” and call it a Dino-whatever at any price between $140,000 and $160,000 U.S., there’s nothing to worry about. Just focus on making it smaller and every bit as legendary as the current F430. It’s a tall order, but one that we can’t wait to try out.



Caption:Yes, we car people do tend to pronounce breathlessly that every Ferrari is the "most important model in the company's history," but are you going to argue with us on this one?


Caption:Was this F430 mule testing the company's new V-10 or the new Dino?


Caption:The Dino will not have any sort of rear-mid V-6 or V-8 to mimic either the F430 or original Dino layout, but a front-mid V-8.


Caption:We say that if they build "a car for the ages" and call it a Dino-whatever at any price between $140,000 and $160,000 U.S., there's nothing to worry about.


Caption:Expect an interior in keeping with contemporary Ferraris. The Dino will be the first Ferrari with standard sat-nav screen. This is the carbon fiber interior, though aluminum-look will also be on offer.


Caption:As for the Dino's outer shell, we're looking at carbon fiber panels all the way around and none of our sources disagree with this.

...

Leif, at no point in this article does Winding Road try to pass off those photoshops as the real thing - they actually make the assertion that this is what it *might* look like. They were clearly referring to the spyshots taken of the F430 test mule as indication that there is a Dino concept in testing. Thanks for playing.

QUOTE(leif)
tell you what, I can't prove that anything on winding road isnt true...however I have not been able to find a single source they claim to quote...if your so interested in it, why don't you prove to me that they are not full of shit. In fact do your best to prove that the 2010 Ferrari Dino article wasnt fabricated, and I'll leave DS never to return.


http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...=73268267266984
http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_ne...rari_dino_spied
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiast...178.A11045.html
http://www.caradisiac.com/php/essai_tun/to...errari_dino.php
http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/cars/ferra.../dino/0405.html
http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-sto...p?news_id=12219
http://www.automobilemag.com/new_and_futur...9_ferrari_dino/
http://www.leftlanenews.com/category/ferrari/
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/06/more-de...o-from-ferrari/
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/1722
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpr...i_420_dino.html
http://www.motorsblog.com/category/auto-makers/ferrari/

Yup, totally fabricated story. We've got some lovely parting gifts for you, however...
goota
gahd dayum, that is a fucking pwning if ive ever seen one. by mopho and md, this is like some sort of pwning orgy.
Phix
leif, maybe you have me on ignore but just realize something...

Even though you think you're a good and contributing member to the DieselStation community you are infact... not. You are the laughing stock of DS.

No, I'm not that great of a contributor myself but holy shit... you certainly take the short bus award.

Oh, yeah, most childish member of DS? Have you looked at yourself? You're just a stubborn arrogant kid with a pube beard. This whole "crusade" against Winding Road is a bitchfest which you happen to find Wikipedia works as a great medium/tool for you to utilize.

Fortunately, not everyone is as dumb as you or else we'd just be sc.net part deux.

Good DAY, SIR!
trail_boss2
Yes leif, when EVERYONE makes fun of you and talks about how retarded you are to NO ONE is joking.
clarkma5
I've had people telling me to ban leif for ages now...he should stop giving me reason to consider it.

Leif, this entire battle of yours shows a lack of reason and logic, and your inability to abandon it is even worse.

EDIT: And looking through what you've done to wikipedia, I must say that it is people like you who are unable to separate fact from opinion (and who fail to do research) who are the cause of that site's continuing decline. For shame.
Halflifehavock13
Uh, whoa.....
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