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DakianDelomast


















In 2002 the last of a dying breed was rolled off the production lines. An image that had withstood everything from an oil crisis to the 80s was removed, perhaps forever. Many fans of the Mustang liked to say that they won. That the original ponycar smashed the camaro finally but they're wrong. It was a simple marketing descision that ended the life of the Camaro. Production was ceased in order to keep fufilling the demands of Truck purists everywhere.

The car was first birthed in 93 with the hot model being the Z28 with the LT1 small block chevy. With about 275 hp (some believe to be an understatement) it was true to the Camaro's image. For the next few years little changed other than the HP being bumped up slowly and the return of the SS model. The big change came in 1998 with a new facelift (they lost the American Football player look) and most importantly a new engine. The LS1 was the latest and greatest of the Smallblock motors and was all aluminum. The powere hopped up to 320 hp and stayed basically there for the duration of the rest of the car's life.

That being said... is it cool?
clarkma5
Uncool...there's a lot of retards out there that make me want to say MJU, but there's a sliver of the camaro population that makes me say "man, they can't be that bad."
TexanBerettaGT
I don't think they make a Camaro I wouldn't sell most of my earthly possesions to get.

Very cool car.

Edit: can't type for anything...
McKhaos
Loved the IROC .
Black RSX
UNCOOL!! It looks like a catfish.. drives like one too

Yuck... hate these things... I took one out for a test drive to see what it was all about... the interior is like the worse thing on the planet... numb steering... poor seating position...

Course maybe if I liked mullets... I would like this car.
Boxster17
I never cared for these ones a whole lot, always prefer the gen before this...
DakianDelomast
Seems to be splitting the votes rather well...
DakianDelomast
Ugh someone has to break the 3 way tie on this car.
DakianDelomast
I had to vote cool just because its the last of a breed. Anyways time for this topic to be shuffled off to MJU.
Dweezil
It's not the last of a breed, see: new Mustang.

Shitty interior, overweight, ugly...

The one thing the Camaro has going for it is that it's easily made super fast, and they can actually be pretty good handlers with some minimal effort.
DakianDelomast
Well by last of the breed I meant the last GM ponycar wink.gif
White RSX
X.gif
Pking688
The C-maro lives on and kicks ass. just go to streetfire.net and check out the videos. It's a hell of a muscle car. happy2.gif
DZ302
the 4th gen is cool, but i prefer the 1st gens. more character and a more interesting interior. 4th gens don't look very good stock, they sit too high and all the wheels they come with save for the ZR1s are fugly. they handle pretty well if you know what you are doing though. most people think they handle like shit because the solid axle scares them in the corners, but you can push it a lot harder than you'd think if you grow some balls.
Espen
Its pretty shocking that GM actually thought they could sell a big, heavy, primitive and at the same time cramped car with an attrocious interior build and live rear axle on the single premise that it had a V8 and made nice sounds.
PAULIE_D
Call me a "gino" but I am still enamoured with the 3rd-gen Camaros (1982 - 1992).
DZ302
QUOTE(Espen @ Sep 27 2005, 11:49 PM)
Its pretty shocking that GM actually thought they could sell a big, heavy, primitive and at the same time cramped car with an attrocious interior build and live rear axle on the single premise that it had a V8 and made nice sounds.

cramped? what are you, 6'10"? i'm 6 feet tall and 4th gens are plenty spacious enough for me. i don't need a cadillac. and what's so bad about a live axle?
DakianDelomast
QUOTE(Espen @ Sep 28 2005, 02:49 AM)
Its pretty shocking that GM actually thought they could sell a big, heavy, primitive and at the same time cramped car with an attrocious interior build and live rear axle on the single premise that it had a V8 and made nice sounds.

Well there's nothing wrong with the LS series motors and there's even less wrong with live rear axles. The car was for people that wanted lots of just raw power.
clarkma5
But the Camaro used LT motors, not LS wink.gif
DZ302
QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Sep 28 2005, 11:01 AM)
But the Camaro used LT motors, not LS wink.gif

what are you talking about? '93-'97 they used LT1s, and then they switched to LS1s and the new body style for '98-'02.
clarkma5
Well, this thread is about '93-'02 models...so half of them used LT1s. So I'm half right!
Halflifehavock13
I said cool but as long as it had a v8 in it. Plus, it might not have handled well, but it was purpose built as affordable horsepower.
clarkma5
QUOTE(Halflifehavock13 @ Sep 28 2005, 12:36 PM)
I said cool but as long as it had a v8 in it. Plus, it might not have handled well, but it was purpose built as affordable horsepower.

You'll notice that this thread only pertains to the V8 '93-'02 models.
leif
only a Hair cut so cool as the mullet could be associated with this car, so cool infact that the term "camaro cut" is interchangable with mullet, thats how you know its wicked cool...wait a minute...what am i saying...mullets are not cool!!!

MJU
fiber optic
Highly modable V8 motor in the front, drive wheels in the back, cool.
moe
There's never been a bad V8 Camaro in history. What should be up here instead is every Mustang ever built, barring the original and the new one.
bing5500
The cool wall isn't just about specs but also the culture & image of a car so the Camaro just screams "disgustingly uncool". The first thing that pops in my head when someone says "Camaro" is "mullet"...I imagine someone playing Poison or Whitesnake while doing burnouts in the Wal-Mart parking lot. Nothing that comes to mind about the Camaro is fond for me...

BTW, before someone swears that the above is just exaggerated legend, I just have to say that I grew up in the country and I have seen more then my fair share of hicks in Camaros growing up.
DZ302
QUOTE(bing5500 @ Jan 3 2006, 09:21 PM) *
The cool wall isn't just about specs but also the culture & image of a car so the Camaro just screams "disgustingly uncool". The first thing that pops in my head when someone says "Camaro" is "mullet"...I imagine someone playing Poison or Whitesnake while doing burnouts in the Wal-Mart parking lot. Nothing that comes to mind about the Camaro is fond for me...

BTW, before someone swears that the above is just exaggerated legend, I just have to say that I grew up in the country and I have seen more then my fair share of hicks in Camaros growing up.

I must have forgotten to grow my mullet and shop at Wal Mart huh.gif
midnightdorifto
Camaros are gay.
Cyclone
QUOTE(midnightdorifto @ Jan 30 2006, 01:16 AM) *
Camaros are gay.


I guess you'd know, huh?
midnightdorifto
QUOTE(Cyclone @ Jan 30 2006, 02:45 AM) *
I guess you'd know, huh?

You bet. They're worthless pieces of domestic trash. They have terrible ergonomics, and they're not made with the finest alacantra and leather. The plastics are terrible. And they have horrible cup holders, they always spill my double grande mocha foam-free latte on my way to the Socialist Club meetings. And mine only gets 28mpg. Hell, they're just pieces of shit.


P.S. Camaro owners prefer Iron Maiden.
DakianDelomast
Don't forget that it still uses lol pushrods lol
DZ302
yeah, damn they need to get with the times. they should have switched over to overhead cams a long time ago. i mean, ever since nissan invented the ohc engine with the skyline, everybody has seen how ultra high tech and newage it is.
PBB
QUOTE(DakianDelomast @ Jan 31 2006, 05:42 PM) *
Don't forget that it still uses lol pushrods lol

At least it's even got a valvetrain. loser.gif
midnightdorifto
QUOTE(DZ302 @ Jan 31 2006, 03:36 PM) *
yeah, damn they need to get with the times. they should have switched over to overhead cams a long time ago. i mean, ever since nissan invented the ohc engine with the skyline, everybody has seen how ultra high tech and newage it is.

Shoot, with 5.7 liters of displacement, European engineers could make 5x10^9 rwhp. The Japanese could make it hit warp 9, and, under impulse power, create more energy than it uses.
DakianDelomast
QUOTE(PBB @ Jan 31 2006, 07:33 PM) *
At least it's even got a valvetrain. loser.gif


Who needs a valvetrain when you have a fuckin sewing machine under the hood.
dukenukem
QUOTE(DakianDelomast @ Jan 31 2006, 07:42 PM) *
Who needs a valvetrain when you have a fuckin sewing machine under the hood.

If only it had the sheer time-space warping awesomeness of the VTAK !!! You know its a instant chubby inducer right there DS_Naughty2.gif
darinzon
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Feb 1 2006, 02:05 AM) *
VTAK

you're always drunk and/or talking about VTAK. wtf.
dukenukem
QUOTE(refinehatelovex @ Feb 2 2006, 04:40 PM) *
you're always drunk and/or talking about VTAK. wtf.

VTAK > your face.
Cyclone
QUOTE(midnightdorifto @ Jan 31 2006, 01:10 AM) *
You bet. They're worthless pieces of domestic trash. They have terrible ergonomics, and they're not made with the finest alacantra and leather. The plastics are terrible. And they have horrible cup holders, they always spill my double grande mocha foam-free latte on my way to the Socialist Club meetings. And mine only gets 28mpg. Hell, they're just pieces of shit.
P.S. Camaro owners prefer Iron Maiden.


If I actually liked you, I'd hall of fame this. But your insult to grande mocha foam-free lattes is just way out of line. You asshole ~cries in a corner~ cry.gif cry.gif
midnightdorifto
QUOTE(Cyclone @ Feb 3 2006, 03:53 AM) *
If I actually liked you, I'd hall of fame this. But your insult to grande mocha foam-free lattes is just way out of line. You asshole ~cries in a corner~ cry.gif cry.gif

*emo tear* for not being in the Hall of Fame.

<--apologizes, not a coffee drinker. I seek other means of delivering caffiene.
Blue Devil
QUOTE(bing5500 @ Jan 3 2006, 09:21 PM) *
The cool wall isn't just about specs but also the culture & image of a car so the Camaro just screams "disgustingly uncool". The first thing that pops in my head when someone says "Camaro" is "mullet"...I imagine someone playing Poison or Whitesnake while doing burnouts in the Wal-Mart parking lot. Nothing that comes to mind about the Camaro is fond for me...

BTW, before someone swears that the above is just exaggerated legend, I just have to say that I grew up in the country and I have seen more then my fair share of hicks in Camaros growing up.

Depends on where you live I guess. Camaros around here (miami) are driven by non mullet individuals.. just regular people looking for a FAST as hell car that handles well and can keep up and beat anything in it's category... and then some.

QUOTE(midnightdorifto @ Jan 30 2006, 10:10 PM) *
You bet. They're worthless pieces of domestic trash. They have terrible ergonomics, and they're not made with the finest alacantra and leather. The plastics are terrible. And they have horrible cup holders, they always spill my double grande mocha foam-free latte on my way to the Socialist Club meetings. And mine only gets 28mpg. Hell, they're just pieces of shit.
P.S. Camaro owners prefer Iron Maiden.

No... they are not made with the finest alacantra and leather... because that's NOT what they are for. These cars in their time where the BANG-FOR-THE-BUCK car as performance wise comes. Pulling low 13's in the 1/4 mile stock.. and handled great in the road course.. if you know how to push it. And they spilled all the coffee cause they would PULL so hard!!!

QUOTE(DZ302 @ Jan 31 2006, 03:36 PM) *
yeah, damn they need to get with the times. they should have switched over to overhead cams a long time ago. i mean, ever since nissan invented the ohc engine with the skyline, everybody has seen how ultra high tech and newage it is.


The overhead cams are all nice and fancy... but Chevy and it's dinosaour small block is pulling the best HP numbers and gas mileage. All from the old push-rod... we ARE still using the old push-rod on the new Z06.. the only car on the 500 hp range.. withouth the Gas-Guzzler tax...
Halflifehavock13
QUOTE(Blue Devil @ Jan 11 2007, 02:34 PM) *
Depends on where you live I guess. Camaros around here (miami) are driven by non mullet individuals.. just regular people looking for a FAST as hell car that handles well and can keep up and beat anything in it's category... and then some.

I agree with the 'bang for the buck' part but they don't handle well. With modifications, you can make them. But stock, no.

Edit: And the z06 gets good mileage not because of the engine, but the extremely long overdrive sixth gear.
leif
^If I remember correctly what PBB told me, I think its skip shift feature also factors into its EPA figures.

Not to say I don't like the Z06...I do.
Halflifehavock13
QUOTE(leif @ Jan 11 2007, 04:30 PM) *
^If I remember correctly what PBB told me, I think its skip shift feature also factors into its EPA figures.

Not to say I don't like the Z06...I do.

Skip shift? Are you talking about the automatic in the regular C6? Or just the ability to skip gears while using a stick in the z06?
DakianDelomast
QUOTE(Halflifehavock13 @ Jan 11 2007, 04:54 PM) *
Skip shift? Are you talking about the automatic in the regular C6? Or just the ability to skip gears while using a stick in the z06?


Its not an ability, more like an invasive lockout that is disabled by most owners. In a manual GM LS powered vehicle if certain conditions aren't met, the transmission will NOT let you shift into 2nd or 3rd.
dukenukem
QUOTE(Blue Devil @ Jan 11 2007, 01:34 PM) *
No... they are not made with the finest alacantra and leather... because that's NOT what they are for. These cars in their time where the BANG-FOR-THE-BUCK car as performance wise comes. Pulling low 13's in the 1/4 mile stock.. and handled great in the road course.. if you know how to push it. And they spilled all the coffee cause they would PULL so hard!!!

midnight was being sarcastic there .... he drives a camaro mullet edition.
Halflifehavock13
QUOTE(DakianDelomast @ Jan 11 2007, 06:04 PM) *
Its not an ability, more like an invasive lockout that is disabled by most owners. In a manual GM LS powered vehicle if certain conditions aren't met, the transmission will NOT let you shift into 2nd or 3rd.

Ah. But I don't think that would affect highway mileage that much because you will usually spend most of your time in one gear. Aren't Corvettes exempt from the gas guzzler tax because of their good highway epa mileage? (about 28 for the manual ls2, 27 for the automatic, and 26 for the z06)
dukenukem
QUOTE(Halflifehavock13 @ Jan 11 2007, 08:14 PM) *
Ah. But I don't think that would affect highway mileage that much because you will usually spend most of your time in one gear. Aren't Corvettes exempt from the gas guzzler tax because of their good highway epa mileage? (about 28 for the manual ls2, 27 for the automatic, and 26 for the z06)

Tall gearing and that lockout BS are some of the reasons for such superior gas mileage happy2.gif
leif
I think PBB told me it accounts for about 10%...but I would need to ask him again to be sure.

And I'm fairly sure the EPA figures are derived from a Duty cycle, rather than staying in one gear for a long time. There has been some call for the EPA to update their "duty cycle", if they haven't done so already.

If I'm not mistaken the current duty cycle was designed in the 1970's, and the primary criticism against it is that a commute now has much more start and stop driving conditions than before, making the current test cycle less relevant to the typical consumer.


If the EPA were to update their duty cycle however, I'm sure the figures for most vehicles would be negatively affected.

EDIT: I just found this:

QUOTE
Due to concerns over the accuracy of this method, a new test was proposed and approved in 2006 for use beginning with model year 2008 vehicles[5]. This new test no longer relies on the fixed global correction factors that the old test used; each vehicle is tested through conditions that more accurately model modern driving, and uses vehicle-specific data. The fuel economy ratings for vehicles tested under the new system are expected to drop an average of 12 percent on 'city' mileage, and 8 percent on 'highway' mileage.


The article went on to say that hybrid vehicles will be negatively affected by up to 30% by the new standards...
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