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BLacK FirE
Bunch of us went to e-town two weeks ago. While there my friend ran his personal best with a 14.4 @ 96mph. Here's the vid:

Click Here

I'll post some more videos as I finish them up.
KarmaWeasel
I'm not trying to turn this in to a flame war and I'm glad he got that performance out of such a slow car originally but I really don't see the point in modding something like a Civic. How much did he/she spend to get their car to those speeds? It's probably enough to just go buy a 2nd gen N/A RX-7 which will run that completely stock. Yeah, there's the concern of age and the rotary engine but it doesn't have to be an RX-7, it could be a 240SX or something else. There's also the argument of reliability, but if you're going to mod the crap out of a car, any car, the reliability factor goes down anyway. Again, not trying to start a flame war, just trying to understand.
DakianDelomast
Don't bother Karma. Blackfire is beyond reason.
dukenukem
/hate mode

Whats the point in modding a wankel ??? It still wont have any torque !!!

/end hate mode tongue.gif

this thread is going to hell in 3..... 2...... 1......
DakianDelomast
What's the point of being indian, you just look brown and sound stupid.


Errr what?
dukenukem
QUOTE(DakianDelomast @ Mar 31 2005, 11:59 AM)
What's the point of being indian, you just look brown and sound stupid.


Errr what?

you failed.
DakianDelomast
You failed so bad that you failed at failing.
dukenukem
QUOTE(DakianDelomast @ Mar 31 2005, 12:01 PM)
You failed so bad that you failed at failing.

accept the facts, you FAILED
DakianDelomast
At least I didn't fail at failing. How much of a failure does it take to do that?
dukenukem
QUOTE(DakianDelomast @ Mar 31 2005, 12:08 PM)
At least I didn't fail at failing. How much of a failure does it take to do that?

if i failed at failing then by double negation rule i succeeded tongue_crossed-eyes.gif

go digital logic design
BLacK FirE
QUOTE(KarmaWeasel @ Mar 31 2005, 12:38 PM)
I'm not trying to turn this in to a flame war and I'm glad he got that performance out of such a slow car originally but I really don't see the point in modding something like a Civic. How much did he/she spend to get their car to those speeds? It's probably enough to just go buy a 2nd gen N/A RX-7 which will run that completely stock. Yeah, there's the concern of age and the rotary engine but it doesn't have to be an RX-7, it could be a 240SX or something else. There's also the argument of reliability, but if you're going to mod the crap out of a car, any car, the reliability factor goes down anyway. Again, not trying to start a flame war, just trying to understand.

What's the point in modding any car then? There will always be something faster. Why dump the money into an n/a rx-7 when you can buy a turbo II or why that? Why not buy something else.

He wanted a civic hatchback and that's what he got. Including the price of the car, he probably hasn't spent any more than $7500 - $8000. Plus it is sooooo easy to build up a honda and cheap too. Even when they are modded they are still reliable. I have a friend with a turboed Integra. He's pushing 227whp on the stock block. It's been like that for over a year and the only problems he has had were little stupid things that were not related to the car being modded.

Honda-Tuning magazine did a feature last year some time. They wanted to take an Integra and make it a 13second car without spending any more than $10,000, including the price of the car. Well they did it. Now with K-series motors, B-series and even H-series, motors have dropped in price so much making it much more affordable.

And to get a 240 instead and to make it fast will cost a whole lot more. The 240 stock only makes 150hp to the flywheel and weighs a whole lot more than a civic hatchback. An engine swap for a 240 is also a bitch. You can't just buy the motor, you need to buy the whole front jdm clip because of all the wires, clips and harnasses and everything you need. Then installing it is a a lot harder than a Honda. I used to be into Nissans and 240sx's hardcore and that's what I planned on getting and doing the sr20det swap. I hated Honda with a passion. Then I saw this Integra, did a little research, realized the potential and got it. Now I know Honda's like the back of my hand.
Benny
QUOTE(BLacK FirE @ Mar 31 2005, 10:22 AM)
Now I know Honda's like the back of my hand.

is that something to be proud of tard.gif
DakianDelomast
QUOTE(BLacK FirE @ Mar 31 2005, 01:22 PM)
What's the point in modding any car then? There will always be something faster. Why dump the money into an n/a rx-7 when you can buy a turbo II or why that? Why not buy something else.

He wanted a civic hatchback and that's what he got. Including the price of the car, he probably hasn't spent any more than $7500 - $8000. Plus it is sooooo easy to build up a honda and cheap too. Even when they are modded they are still reliable. I have a friend with a turboed Integra. He's pushing 227whp on the stock block. It's been like that for over a year and the only problems he has had were little stupid things that were not related to the car being modded.

Honda-Tuning magazine did a feature last year some time. They wanted to take an Integra and make it a 13second car without spending any more than $10,000, including the price of the car. Well they did it. Now with K-series motors, B-series and even H-series, motors have dropped in price so much making it much more affordable.

And to get a 240 instead and to make it fast will cost a whole lot more. The 240 stock only makes 150hp to the flywheel and weighs a whole lot more than a civic hatchback. An engine swap for a 240 is also a bitch. You can't just buy the motor, you need to buy the whole front jdm clip because of all the wires, clips and harnasses and everything you need. Then installing it is a a lot harder than a Honda. I used to be into Nissans and 240sx's hardcore and that's what I planned on getting and doing the sr20det swap. I hated Honda with a passion. Then I saw this Integra, did a little research, realized the potential and got it. Now I know Honda's like the back of my hand.

BAHAHAHAHAHA
KarmaWeasel
QUOTE(BLacK FirE @ Mar 31 2005, 10:22 AM)
What's the point in modding any car then? There will always be something faster. Why dump the money into an n/a rx-7 when you can buy a turbo II or why that? Why not buy something else.

He wanted a civic hatchback and that's what he got. Including the price of the car, he probably hasn't spent any more than $7500 - $8000. Plus it is sooooo easy to build up a honda and cheap too. Even when they are modded they are still reliable. I have a friend with a turboed Integra. He's pushing 227whp on the stock block. It's been like that for over a year and the only problems he has had were little stupid things that were not related to the car being modded.

Honda-Tuning magazine did a feature last year some time. They wanted to take an Integra and make it a 13second car without spending any more than $10,000, including the price of the car. Well they did it. Now with K-series motors, B-series and even H-series, motors have dropped in price so much making it much more affordable.

And to get a 240 instead and to make it fast will cost a whole lot more. The 240 stock only makes 150hp to the flywheel and weighs a whole lot more than a civic hatchback. An engine swap for a 240 is also a bitch. You can't just buy the motor, you need to buy the whole front jdm clip because of all the wires, clips and harnasses and everything you need. Then installing it is a a lot harder than a Honda. I used to be into Nissans and 240sx's hardcore and that's what I planned on getting and doing the sr20det swap. I hated Honda with a passion. Then I saw this Integra, did a little research, realized the potential and got it. Now I know Honda's like the back of my hand.

I knew someone was going to throw this question out there. If I'm going to dump $6k in to my $4k car, you can damn well be sure I'm not going to buy an econobox like a Honda Civic. I think there's a point where there's a huge gap in performance cars in price (like jumping from the RX-7 to a M3) that hasn't been filled with any other car and, considering the price of a M3, I'd rather dump $6k in to my RX-7 and have it be faster than M3. If that makes any sense. You can make a "N/A" RX-7 faster than a TII if you know what you're doing but that's another discussion all together.

I bought my car for $4k (a little steep but I'm a sucker for something that's in immaculate condition) and if I where to put in $3.5k - $4k I'll be one of the fastest cars on the road without a doubt instead of just barely being able to keep up with a stock N/A 300ZX (see above).

Think the Honda-Tuning magazine thing's been covered already. But, for $10k, I can get a blown 3rd gen, throw on a heavy streetport, and show any $10k car what for. A guy I live by (has a FD) just put a bigger streetport on his engine, switched the twin turbo setup to a bi, has bigger injectors, and he's running low 12s easily. He can outaccelerate and is faster than a 600cc bike. Just to but things in perspective. I'll be sure to ask him how much he's spent on the entire thing but I'm sure it's close to or around $10k.

I'll admit, the 240SX was a bad example but it's all that came to mind before I had to go out the door. As I was driving away from home I thought "I should have said 300ZX, Supra (although pricey), or a MR2". My bad. Also, I wouldn't consider an Integra in the same category as a Civic.
KarmaWeasel
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 31 2005, 09:58 AM)
/hate mode

Whats the point in modding a wankel ??? It still wont have any torque !!!

/end hate mode  tongue.gif

this thread is going to hell in 3..... 2...... 1......

*cough*supercharger*cough* What? Oh, sorry, think I need a glass of water.
dukenukem
QUOTE(KarmaWeasel @ Mar 31 2005, 03:15 PM)
QUOTE(dukenukem @ Mar 31 2005, 09:58 AM)
/hate mode

Whats the point in modding a wankel ??? It still wont have any torque !!!

/end hate mode  tongue.gif

this thread is going to hell in 3..... 2...... 1......

*cough*supercharger*cough* What? Oh, sorry, think I need a glass of water.

you failed too thumbs_down.gif
clarkma5
I see no point in flaming him for modding a Civic...as much as Dakian likes to laugh at him, he has a point...why do you mod anything? Why do you mod RX-7(s)? Why do people mod Mercedes or BMWs or Porsches or Ferraris? Why do people do anything?
KarmaWeasel
I'm not flaming him, or if I am, I'm not trying to. Just trying to understand.
BLacK FirE
QUOTE(DakianDelomast @ Mar 31 2005, 03:00 PM)
BAHAHAHAHAHA

Dakian you will never cease to amaze me with your ignorance and utmost stupidity to certain things. Just because you riced out your honda and knew shit about it does not mean everyone else is like you.

QUOTE(KarmaWeasel @ Mar 31 2005,4:12 PM)
I knew someone was going to throw this question out there. If I'm going to dump $6k in to my $4k car, you can damn well be sure I'm not going to buy an econobox like a Honda Civic. I think there's a point where there's a huge gap in performance cars in price (like jumping from the RX-7 to a M3) that hasn't been filled with any other car and, considering the price of a M3, I'd rather dump $6k in to my RX-7 and have it be faster than M3. If that makes any sense. You can make a "N/A" RX-7 faster than a TII if you know what you're doing but that's another discussion all together.

I bought my car for $4k (a little steep but I'm a sucker for something that's in immaculate condition) and if I where to put in $3.5k - $4k I'll be one of the fastest cars on the road without a doubt instead of just barely being able to keep up with a stock N/A 300ZX (see above).

Think the Honda-Tuning magazine thing's been covered already. But, for $10k, I can get a blown 3rd gen, throw on a heavy streetport, and show any $10k car what for. A guy I live by (has a FD) just put a bigger streetport on his engine, switched the twin turbo setup to a bi, has bigger injectors, and he's running low 12s easily. He can outaccelerate and is faster than a 600cc bike. Just to but things in perspective. I'll be sure to ask him how much he's spent on the entire thing but I'm sure it's close to or around $10k.

I'll admit, the 240SX was a bad example but it's all that came to mind before I had to go out the door. As I was driving away from home I thought "I should have said 300ZX, Supra (although pricey), or a MR2". My bad.


Each person has their own preferance to cars. Ours are Hondas. Plus you have to remember that availabilty becomes a factor too. One reason I didn't get the 240sx was because it was close to impossible to find a s14 let alone get one that was in good condition. 300zx, finding a twin turbo is hard, and supra? I don't know where that came from, but that is in a completely different ball park because of the price to buy it alone.

And it's the same with anything, if you know what your doing and dump the money into it, yes it will be faster. But let's say that Turbo II puts the same amount of money in as you did, well guess what his car is probably going to be faster because he started off with the better base. Again we come back to the fact that there will always be something better and faster.

See now if most people have the view you and that ignorant fellow Dakian, that Hondas are crap and people who do modify them are wasting their money, will be very suprised when one pulls up next to you and beats you. A friend of mine had a crx that was running 11.2. It was his daily driver and he would wipe the floor with almost anything. Before that he had a 2nd gen Integra that he autocrossed and was one of the best performing cars that would come to the events.

Some people probably see all of us stupid for just modifying a car in the first place. They may think that money could go towards something else like a house or artwork or whatever. It will always come down to personal preference. But also the cars you keep comparing are all in different classes. An M3 is not cheap, neither is a good condition FD. Any FD that I have seen for sale that has around 80k miles either has been rebuilt recently or has a fresh motor swap. A boosted Honda that is tuned right and well maintained will last forever.

Hondas and Honda parts will always be cheap, that is part of the huge appeal to people. Say we were each given $12,000. I could make a 11 second Honda no problem. I could pick up a rolling shell for 1,000, a full vtec swap with tranny for 1500 - 2000, full turbo setup can be completed with tuning for around 4,000 or less and then the rest of the money could be used to build the internals, work the head etc. And after all of this I will be under 2100lbs. The power to weight ratio of Hondas is what make them fast. You may make more power, but a Honda will in most cases always be lighter.
DakianDelomast
QUOTE(BLacK FirE @ Mar 31 2005, 04:33 PM)
Dakian you will never cease to amaze me with your ignorance and utmost stupidity to certain things. Just because you riced out your honda and knew shit about it does not mean everyone else is like you.

lol I just find your entire perspective hilariously skewed. 8 grand spent on a civic is not cheap.

I also enjoy how I'm arguing in this thread without actually having said anything.
clarkma5
Dakian: you're obviously looking at things through your own funky perspective. You mock people for modding civics, for buying old porsches...yet you threw thousands of dollars at an old RX-7. And you go 'well, duh, I like RX-7s'. That's all there is to it! If I through $10k at my car you'd think I was dumb but I would do it because I like the car and wanted to throw money at it. His friend likes civics, other people like other things...they're all enthusiasts to an extent. Quit picking on them because they're doing EXACTLY what you're doing/have done, just with a different car. And as much as you'd like to think you know the objective truth about this kinda stuff, there's no such thing as the RIGHT car to put money into or the WRONG car to put money into. It's a question of interest, passion, and resolve.

Cliff's notes: Shut the fuck up, Dakian.
DakianDelomast
Err... no I don't clark. I like modded civics and old Porsches...
clarkma5
Look, Dakian, just shut up...you're talking out of your ass at this point.
DakianDelomast
No I'm not. You're assuming far too many things about me and its biting you in the ass. I love the old civics and especially the old EG hatches and even the EKs with their double wishie suspensions.

Hell I'd love the Del Sol even more if it had the same potential as the cibbies and integras.
clarkma5
You're being a hypocrite. You love those cars but you're mocking somebody for basically trying to make what you like?

Dakian: this person, whoever he is, is not hurting you and, if anything, is working toward an end that you can approve of, at least on some level. You're just being antagonistic toward Black Fire because you don't like him.
DakianDelomast
Why am I the one that's being railed in this thread? All I had was a simple laugh and suddenly I'm the one that's flaming. I'm not making fun of anyone for spending money on cars and pursuing what they love. But Black Fire's perspective always puts a smile on my face.

"Its cheap to mod a honda"

"10 grand and you can run 13s"

Its usually the money thing that makes me lol. I know I'm pissing away money on the RX-7 and will continue doing so. Do I care? no. Is it cheap? Fuck no! If I wanted cheap I'd get a good ole merrican car and grab me a copy of Jeggs. In a half an hour I'd have all the parts I needed to blast down a drag strip or hell even make the car handle on the road. So in conclusion clark. Please back off. I am not your witch.
clarkma5
Well, fine, his justifications are a bit thin...but I can understand what he's trying to do, he's trying to justify what he likes to somebody who routinely only cares about numbers and figures (you). If he would be smart enough to say that he just likes what he's doing instead of trying to justify the Civic as the ultimate performance machine then we might be getting somewhere.

But you of all people, as you said, should understand exactly where he's coming from.
DakianDelomast
I do understand where he's coming from but some day he will see the light and say "God damn this is a lot of money" and he'll do one of two things. If he sticks with the honda then you know what? Good for him! More power to ya buddy.

Or he'll say "screw this" drop his project car and go for something easier/cheaper. I copped out. Does that make me better than some guy who spends thousands of dollars on a civic that can dance the night away? Err actually I think that makes me worse than than said theoretical guy in a lot of ways wink.gif
clarkma5
...I have no idea why you assume he's at the pre-stage of throwing money at it for the hell of it...how do you know he hasn't already done a lot of thinking about it and said "I'm gonna keep doing this because I love it?". That's not very fair.
DakianDelomast
Because he always justifies it with the cheapness.
clarkma5
See, I see that more as himself ingratiating (sp?) himself to you, but whatever.
BLacK FirE
Hmm Dakian I must have said numerous times that it is also personal preference. And it is cheap to build a Honda when you know what your doing, but first you need a car to learn on. My friend with that civic there, way overpaid for it hence why I gave the figure that he's spent already on it. He realizes it now. When he first got the car he was one of those kids that gets a car off of ebay and pays way too much for it. There's a ton of those kids in this town. The difference between him and everyone else that did that, is he went out and learned about the car and hondas. He knew shit then compared to what he knows now.

The same thing goes for me and I talk to him about it. The amount I spent on purchasing my car alone, I could have had an ek with a type r swap and bolt ons already. But I didn't know as much as I do now.

Oh and guess what, the del sol has just as much potential as any other honda. Another guy I know had a jdm sir-g swap with every bolt on possible, an lsd tranny, nitrous, and the type r suspension with 5 lug conversion.

You want the ultimate justification? BECAUSE WE LIKE HONDAS. And he has thought it through and we are anticipating him of skipping over the 13's and going straight to the 12's. His setup has almost been completed. He is just waiting on his turbo to be shipped and some other misc. things have to be bought and then the insanity will ensue. And hopefully if I can find a 2nd job this summer I will be right behind him.
fiber optic
If I could turn my VW into a 14 second car it would make me biggrin.gif
DakianDelomast
QUOTE(BLacK FirE @ Mar 31 2005, 06:00 PM)
Oh and guess what, the del sol has just as much potential as any other honda. Another guy I know had a jdm sir-g swap with every bolt on possible, an lsd tranny, nitrous, and the type r suspension with 5 lug conversion.

Err your del sol arguement is severely flawed because guess what, I DON'T DRAG RACE. Things like chassis rigidity are uber important to me and the del sol is severely lacking in that aspect.
Black RSX
Do you guys think I am stupid for moding my RSX then??
BLacK FirE
QUOTE(Black RSX @ Mar 31 2005, 07:07 PM)
Do you guys think I am stupid for moding my RSX then??

Speaking of, my friend who got his gsr stolen back in september, just took delievery of his brand new nighthawk black pearl '05 rsx type-s. Don't know what his plans are for it yet, but I will be doing a shoot of that and my friends new Mazdaspeed Protege when I'm home next.
DakianDelomast
QUOTE(Black RSX @ Mar 31 2005, 07:07 PM)
Do you guys think I am stupid for moding my RSX then??

See above, you're not stupid for modifying any vehicle. Someone's stupidity comes from doing it for the wrong reasons. And you stumpy I think have all the right reasons wink.gif
BLacK FirE
Oh so liking Hondas is not a reason. Might wanna work on your read skills there Dakian thumbs_down.gif
DakianDelomast
I didn't say that Black fire..
BLacK FirE
No, but I know your implying that I'm doing it for the wrong reasons, which you believe to be my only reason is the cheapness of it. That's only the tip of the iceburg and I was using that aspect to argue Karma's points.
DakianDelomast
Ok well there you go.

Now stop putting words in my god damn mouth! angry.gif
dcho
you just gota see things with some Meilink Vision rolleyes.gif
BLacK FirE
QUOTE(dcho @ Mar 31 2005, 09:10 PM)
you just gota see things with some Meilink Vision rolleyes.gif

laugh.gif I don't know why but that's pretty funny.
porschedream
Je n'aime pas Honda thumbs_down.gif
BLacK FirE
Nous parlons l'anglais parce que je n'aime pas parle francais wink.gif
dcho
canadian.gif
goota
w00t civics!!!!!!!!
Fox
Why did you post that video? That car is slow as dirt.
BLacK FirE
QUOTE(Fox @ Mar 31 2005, 09:57 PM)
Why did you post that video? That car is slow as dirt.

I posted it because I like making videos, it was his best run thus far to date, it's a work in progress so we are documenting its progress, and guess what buddy it's fast for what it is. And I'm curious as to what super car you are driving...
KarmaWeasel
QUOTE(BLacK FirE @ Mar 31 2005, 01:33 PM)
Each person has their own preferance to cars. Ours are Hondas. Plus you have to remember that availabilty becomes a factor too. One reason I didn't get the 240sx was because it was close to impossible to find a s14 let alone get one that was in good condition. 300zx, finding a twin turbo is hard, and supra? I don't know where that came from, but that is in a completely different ball park because of the price to buy it alone.

And it's the same with anything, if you know what your doing and dump the money into it, yes it will be faster. But let's say that Turbo II puts the same amount of money in as you did, well guess what his car is probably going to be faster because he started off with the better base. Again we come back to the fact that there will always be something better and faster.

See now if most people have the view you and that ignorant fellow Dakian, that Hondas are crap and people who do modify them are wasting their money, will be very suprised when one pulls up next to you and beats you. A friend of mine had a crx that was running 11.2. It was his daily driver and he would wipe the floor with almost anything. Before that he had a 2nd gen Integra that he autocrossed and was one of the best performing cars that would come to the events.

Some people probably see all of us stupid for just modifying a car in the first place. They may think that money could go towards something else like a house or artwork or whatever. It will always come down to personal preference. But also the cars you keep comparing are all in different classes. An M3 is not cheap, neither is a good condition FD. Any FD that I have seen for sale that has around 80k miles either has been rebuilt recently or has a fresh motor swap. A boosted Honda that is tuned right and well maintained will last forever.

Hondas and Honda parts will always be cheap, that is part of the huge appeal to people. Say we were each given $12,000. I could make a 11 second Honda no problem. I could pick up a rolling shell for 1,000, a full vtec swap with tranny for 1500 - 2000, full turbo setup can be completed with tuning for around 4,000 or less and then the rest of the money could be used to build the internals, work the head etc. And after all of this I will be under 2100lbs. The power to weight ratio of Hondas is what make them fast. You may make more power, but a Honda will in most cases always be lighter.

Alright, I can respect your opinion. I kind of wanted to discuss this further but this thread's gone to the dogs and I don't really want to continue to read through the crap just to get to the information that I was waiting on a reply for.

I do have it in my head that Hondas are crap because they're not really much of a tuner car to start with and I see a lot around here that are all show and no go. Hell, I beat every riced out Honda that pulled up next to me in my truck ('88 Toyota 4x4) and it was no contest. I recently beat some punk kid that had a turbo'ed civic sedan and while he did stay a bit close, when I hit the end of 2nd and 3rd, I was gone and he was just a pair of fading headlights in my rear-view mirror. That's where I get my view on Hondas; the fact that I have beaten every single one that's tried to race me and none have come even close to matching me. Provided, I'm sure they're incorrectly modded and whatnot, but that's just what the user base is like around here. It's typically a bunch of teenagers or people in their early 20s like me that was given their mom's daily commuter Honda and think it's the fastest thing on the road. Considering I've only put $40 into modding my car and they've probably dropped a few hundred but then we get back to the whole car base thing.
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