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> DSCOTY '06: Family Cars Redo
DSCOTY '06: Family Cars
What is Dieselstation's best Family Car of the year?
Chevrolet Impala/Monte Carlo [ 2 ] ** [4.26%]
Dodge Charger (excluding SRT-8) [ 5 ] ** [10.64%]
Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan [ 3 ] ** [6.38%]
Honda Accord (excluding Hybrid) [ 12 ] ** [25.53%]
Hyundai Sonata [ 4 ] ** [8.51%]
Mazda5 [ 4 ] ** [8.51%]
Volkswagen Passat 2.0T [ 17 ] ** [36.17%]
Total Votes: 47
  
clarkma5
post Dec 9 2005, 05:41 PM
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For more on the Dieselstation Car Of The Year '06 competition, please see this thread.

Chevrolet Impala/Monte Carlo
Base MSRP:
$21,990 (Impala & Monte Carlo)
Available Engines: 3.5 liter OHV 12-valve V6 with 211 HP and 214 ft.-lbs. of torque; 3.9 liter OHV 12-valve V6 with 242 HP and 242 ft.-lbs. of torque; 5.3 liter OHV 16-valve V8 with multiple displacement system and 303 HP and 322 ft.-lbs. of torque.
Available Transmissions: 4-speed automatic transmission
Available Drivetrains: Front wheel drive
Curb Weight: 3461-3790 lbs.





Dodge Charger (excluding SRT-8)
Base MSRP:
$22,995
Available Engines: 3.5 liter SOHC 24-valve V6 with 250 HP and 250 ft.-lbs. of torque; 5.7 liter OHV 16-valve V8 with multiple displacement system and 340 HP and 390 ft.-lbs. of torque.
Available Transmissions: 5-speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode
Available Drivetrains: Rear wheel drive
Curb Weight: 3727-4031 lbs





Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan
Base MSRP:
$17,795 (Fusion); $18,995 (Milan)
Available Engines: 2.3 liter DOHC 16-valve inline-4 with 160 HP and 156 ft.-lbs. of torque; 3.0 liter DOHC 24-valve V6 with 221 HP and 205 ft.-lbs. of torque.
Available Transmissions: 5-speed manual or 5-speed automatic transmission (2.3 only); 6-speed automatic transmission (V6 only).
Available Drivetrains: Front wheel drive
Curb Weight: 3101-3303 lbs.





Honda Accord (excluding Hybrid)
Base MSRP:
$18,225
Available Engines: 2.4 liter DOHC 16-valve inline-4 with 166 HP and 160 ft.-lbs. of torque; 3.0 liter SOHC 24-valve V6 with 244 HP and 211 ft.-lbs. of torque.
Available Transmissions: 5-speed manual (2.4 only) or 5-speed automatic transmission; 6-speed manual transmission (V6 only).
Available Drivetrains: Front wheel drive
Curb Weight: 3056-3437 lbs.





Hyundai Sonata
Base MSRP:
$17,895
Available Engines: 2.4 liter DOHC 16-valve inline-4 with 162 HP and 164 ft.-lbs. of torque; 3.3 liter DOHC 24-valve V6 with 235 HP and 226 ft.-lbs. of torque.
Available Transmissions: 5-speed manual or 4-speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode (2.4 only); 5-speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode (V6 only)
Available Drivetrains: Front wheel drive
Curb Weight: 3253-3458 lbs.





Mazda5
Base MSRP:
$17,995
Available Engines: 2.3 liter DOHC 16-valve inline-4 with 157 HP and 148 ft.-lbs. of torque.
Available Transmissions: 5-speed manual or 4-speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode.
Available Drivetrains: Front wheel drive
Curb Weight: 3333-3389 lbs.





Volkswagen Passat 2.0T
Base MSRP:
$22,950
Available Engines: 2.0 liter DOHC 16-valve turbocharged inline-4 with 200 HP and 207 ft.-lbs. of torque
Available Transmissions: 6-speed manual or 6-speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode
Available Drivetrains: Front wheel drive
Curb Weight: 3305-3344 lbs.



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DZ302
post Dec 9 2005, 05:49 PM
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Accord!

Oh and the V6 is only a single overhead cam, not double wink.gif
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clarkma5
post Dec 9 2005, 06:00 PM
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That's what I get for being sloppy.
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Phix
post Dec 9 2005, 06:54 PM
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Accord.
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clarkma5
post Dec 9 2005, 06:54 PM
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Bah, you guys are all boring.

The Passat deserves it. Or perhaps the Mazda5.
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Keitero-sama
post Dec 9 2005, 07:17 PM
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Where is the Saab 93?
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Mitlov
post Dec 9 2005, 08:39 PM
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Honda Accord sedan, V6, six-speed manual. Any questions?

QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Dec 9 2005, 06:54 PM) *
Bah, you guys are all boring.

The Passat deserves it. Or perhaps the Mazda5.

How on earth is a 2.0T Passat more exciting than a V6 6MT Accord? I hate to say it, clarkma5, but your pro-VW, anti-Honda tendencies have the better of you right now.
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moe
post Dec 10 2005, 12:11 AM
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Go Mazda! I voted for the 5 because it brings something new to the US market. It's stylish, fun to drive, versatile, and practical.
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DZ302
post Dec 10 2005, 12:16 AM
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QUOTE(moethepaki @ Dec 10 2005, 12:11 AM) *
Go Mazda! I voted for the 5 because it brings something new to the US market. It's stylish, fun to drive, versatile, and practical.

something new? it's a slow minivan, we've had those since the 70s
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clarkma5
post Dec 10 2005, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE(Mitlov @ Dec 9 2005, 08:39 PM) *
Honda Accord sedan, V6, six-speed manual. Any questions?
How on earth is a 2.0T Passat more exciting than a V6 6MT Accord? I hate to say it, clarkma5, but your pro-VW, anti-Honda tendencies have the better of you right now.


I'm hardly anti-Honda (go S2k, Integra Type-R, NSX!!!) but the Accord is the epitome of boring. Not saying the Passat is mechanically more interesting, but the Accord is embraced by people who don't care about cars and buy them like they would buy a washing machine...the Passat appeals to a different sort of buyer. It's got a little passion to it...I mean, it's not old italian sports car, but it's significant in a segment as dull as the midsize sedan segment.

QUOTE(DZ302 @ Dec 10 2005, 12:16 AM) *
something new? it's a slow minivan, we've had those since the 70s


It's smaller than any minivan we've ever had in that segment, even including cars like the '80s Caravans and the MPV, which are small by current modern minivan standards. It's smart and european and completely new in the US market.
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DZ302
post Dec 10 2005, 12:19 AM
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have you ever driven a 6 speed accord? there is nothing boring about it.

i mean, how can the passat be exciting? it's got a 200hp 4 cylinder pushing a huge 3300lb barge tongue_crossed-eyes.gif

and the mazda may be a mini-minivan...making it a rounded off scion. big deal
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clarkma5
post Dec 10 2005, 12:21 AM
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Your definition of exciting is something with more horsepower than the next guy. My interest in cars goes a lot deeper than that, thank you very much.
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DZ302
post Dec 10 2005, 12:22 AM
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QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Dec 10 2005, 12:21 AM) *
Your definition of exciting is something with more horsepower than the next guy. My interest in cars goes a lot deeper than that, thank you very much.

my definition of exciting is a fun car to drive. honda's 6 speeds are very good and have the best shifters on the market. the passat has...well it really has nothing to offer. more unique looks? ok, you can oogle at your car in the driveway and i'll be busy driving mine on windy roads.
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clarkma5
post Dec 10 2005, 12:33 AM
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Honda has great manuals, no denial, but the Passat's 6-speed is a new unit with a good feel of its own.

The 3.0 V6 is also a good engine; Honda makes sharp engines that are smooth, eager, and, in the case of the Accord, pretty powerful. I tend to find them a little devoid of character though, to be honest, in terms of power delivery and sound (the exception being their fantastic Type-R and sports car engines...god do I love the NSX's V6. UNF!).

You do, however, forget that the 2.0T is one of the best little engines out there at the moment. Revvy with a strong sound and the simultaneous rush of turbo torque combined with a convenient wide rev band, it's every bit a match for the Accord's in terms of overall excellence despite the 44 HP difference.

Also, the way I see it, the Accord falls short of the Passat in the following areas: interior accomodations, feel, and design and suspension tuning.

The Accord's interior, frankly, feels cheap when compared to the Passat...of course, it is a somewhat cheaper car in general, but when you're comparing the V6 to the 4-cylinder Passat the Passat comes out on top in terms of price. It's also a smaller interior, and actually despite the Passat's larger interior dimensions it weighs less (when comparing the 2.0T versus the V6 Accord). In terms of suspension tuning, the Accord has a taut feel with great damping when you're cruising around, but it gives up the ghost when you push it. Now, the Passat is no sports car, but its suspension is less of a dissapointment in the bends. And lastly there's the feel...maybe it's just me, but Accords (since '98) have been unfortunately antiseptic...the suspension may be TOO well-damped...it smothers out the road too much and leaves me cold. The Passat gives a little bit of that German road feel that I've grown so used to over the years.

In the end, I think it's fair to say that they're both technically excellent cars that have a lot to offer on paper, but the Passat's dynamics are more suited to my personal tastes. So, let's just call this stupid argument finished, please?
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DZ302
post Dec 10 2005, 12:54 AM
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the Accord V6 sounds a lot like the NSX V6...provided it's the 6 speed (in the coupes anyways, the V6 6 speeds have some sound baffle or something removed and sound COMPLETELY different than the autos. i have an intake though so it's a lot louder and raspier, sounds better than a stock NSX)

my accord's chassis and suspension is very composed, the only downside is obviously FWD and crappy tires, it could also be a little lower too. but the chassis is honestly better than any volkswagon i have driven, and i have driven the new jettas (i know that's not a passat, but i doubt the passat would be engineered for the twisties more)

but yeah, bottom line is you prefer the inferior passat and i prefer the superior accord tongue.gif
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clarkma5
post Dec 10 2005, 01:01 AM
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Honestly, I refuse to believe your car sounds anywhere near as good as a stock NSX...good maybe, but the NSX has a stunning induction roar at ~7000 RPM that no plebian sedan engine would ever beat, whether it be Passat, Accord, or even the V8 Charger. So don't even go there.

And my view of Honda's non sporty car suspensions (read: Accord and Civic) has been that they feel impressively crisp and sporty at first but become disappointing after you live with them. My experience with VW suspensions has, however, been the opposite...a little underwhelming at first, but better after you live with them.

And as a last little insight into me being a proponent for VW, consider this: I did not give a shit about Volkswagen before I got my first GTI. I knew practically nothing about their reputation, I knew practically nothing about their history (particularly their post-air cooled history), and I had absolutely no interest in the brand as an object of adoration. It was only after I had had my first car for months, even a year, that I became a VW enthusiast. In other words, the product won me over, instead of me applying some sort of deep-seated love to the product to make it seem better than it is. I'm not accusing you of doing that, but I would like to clarify for everybody who thinks I'm just some whacky VW fanboy who sleeps with stuffed Golf plushies at night or something dreaming about VR6s.

To repeat what I said in my last point, I will readily agree the Accord is a fine car and I can totally understand why you or anyone else would like it. I, personally, do not. End of story.
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moe
post Dec 10 2005, 06:42 AM
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QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Dec 10 2005, 12:01 PM) *
And my view of Honda's non sporty car suspensions (read: Accord and Civic) has been that they feel impressively crisp and sporty at first but become disappointing after you live with them.


I agree with that completely. When my dad first picked up his new Accord earlier this year, I was at university. When I came to visit the second he picked me up from teh airport I insisted on driving it. I was immediately impressed, it rode well, it handled crisply, and was stable at high speeds. Over the period of a week though I began to feel the imperfectioncies especially, once I picked up my Mazda. That said it's still a great car to drive, miles ahead of its opposition (Altima, Camry, Sonata), but still not as pleasing to drive as say a Mazda 6. I haven't driven a VW yet, so I don't really know what they're like.
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fiber optic
post Dec 10 2005, 06:54 AM
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How is the stupid Passat in multiple categories?
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idiot
post Dec 10 2005, 10:10 AM
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QUOTE(fiber optic @ Dec 10 2005, 09:54 AM) *
How is the stupid Passat in multiple categories?


because clarkma5 is a VW whore happy2.gif
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clarkma5
post Dec 10 2005, 12:59 PM
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Because the 2.0T is too cheap for the luxury category but the 3.6 is too expensive for the family category.

Honestly, it spans categories! I didn't do it, VW did! Plus, the V6 and 2.0T models have unique drivetrains and stuff, so...I think it's sensible.
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