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> Volkswagen Motor Build, Documentary
goota
post Jul 15 2008, 04:31 PM
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yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, i had wonder what happened to this thread. im excited to see how it comes along.
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Aircooled
post Jul 15 2008, 05:38 PM
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mmm, aircooled. Th build looks good. I have tooled around on a 36hp engine. It has given me an appreciation for the design of the motor and the people/factory where it was constructed.

My plan on a motor is 2.5l+ type 4. You know, after I get out of college and have money for this stuff...
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clarkma5
post Jul 15 2008, 06:42 PM
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Ooh a nice 2.0. That should be a monster.
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Phix
post Jul 15 2008, 07:13 PM
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So, you're not using those awesome venturis anymore?
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fiber optic
post Jul 16 2008, 03:17 AM
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QUOTE(Phix @ Jul 15 2008, 10:13 PM) *
So, you're not using those awesome venturis anymore?


No, I'll be able to use the 34mm ones that they came with.
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Bjorn
post Jul 16 2008, 06:30 PM
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Kinda OT, but do you know how similar this engine is to the one in a 1970s era Porsche (912 and 914 specifically)?

I'm hoping to buy a 914 after life calms down here (T-4 days till due date) and am wondering what my tuning options are for the flat four, and where I might find some good resources for someone who is new to air-cooled engines.
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fiber optic
post Jul 17 2008, 05:06 AM
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QUOTE(Bjorn @ Jul 16 2008, 09:30 PM) *
Kinda OT, but do you know how similar this engine is to the one in a 1970s era Porsche (912 and 914 specifically)?

I'm hoping to buy a 914 after life calms down here (T-4 days till due date) and am wondering what my tuning options are for the flat four, and where I might find some good resources for someone who is new to air-cooled engines.


I think the 4-cylinder motor used in the 914 is the same as used in the post '72 microbuses and what's called the Type 4 Volkswagens. In VW circles it's often just called the Type 4 motor. Some guys think it's the finest 4-cylinder aircooled motor VW ever made. I can't say either way but they can be made wickedly powerful. Jake Raby at AirCooledTechnology is probably the most knowledgeable and trusted when it comes to the Type 4 motors.

There are a couple of good forums packed with too much information.
Shop Talk ForumsThey have a Type 4rum and a specific 914 forum

The Forums at The Samba



EDIT: I don't know anything about the 6-cylinder motors.
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fiber optic
post Jul 18 2008, 11:14 AM
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Short block kit has been ordered. As it turns out the 78mm stroke crankshaft is really 78.8mm. I don't understand why that's the case but it does change my displacement by about 20cc. It will end up being something around 2028cc.

Forged 4340 crank with VW journals 8-doweled
5.4" H-beam rods with 3/8" ARP 8740 bolts
4340 lightened flywheel (12.5 lbs stock is close to 19 lbs I think)
HD chromoly gland nut (holds flywheel on crank)
Main, rod, and cam bearings
Crank gear set
Gaskets
and all dynamically balanced


I also got an appropriate mount for the motor. The one I was using was borrowed from my father-in-law which is designed for small block V8s and was eating up my old case. You can see how it mounts in Post #14. The new one is designed for VW/Porsche motors.


I can take some pics of some of the other parts I've got laying around if anybody cares. Crankcase breather, carb linkage, oil sump, intake manifolds, etc. Just for something to keep you entertained while we wait on parts. Hopefully my stuff will be here by next weekend so some work can get done.
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Bjorn
post Jul 18 2008, 11:44 AM
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Post away...this is awesome.
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fiber optic
post Jul 19 2008, 03:48 PM
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Oil sump, looking at the bottom of it.


Profile of the sump. The pickup tube extends into this from the original. It's designed to increase oil capacity so that a non-stock motor doesn't starve itself of oil.


Intake manifold. Weber DCNF to VW dual port.


Same as above from another angle. I'll send these away when I buy the heads to have them port matched to the intake ports on the heads. Flow and velocity++


Carburetor linkage. Connects two carburetors to a single throttle cable. This style mounts to the fan shroud.


Full flow oil kit. This allows the oil to be filtered through a real filter. Originally VWs only had a mesh screen in the sump and really only prevented catastrophic failure. The oil pump's original outlet gets plugged and the oil comes out through the black square pump cover (seen in the top left of the photo), goes through the lines to the filter, and then back into the case through the threaded hole in the oil galley.


Crankcase breather. Similar behavior to a PCV system. Vertical outlet will be plumbed to air filter top to provide vacuum. The two horizontal ones will route to the valve covers to apply vacuum to the crankcase. This is baffled to separate oil out which gets drained back into the case. Also provides a more convenient oil fill hole.




I visited my parents today and dad said there was a VW show in town. tard.gif There were a couple of sweet cars, a grey oval window and a late 50's early 60's cal-looker, lots of garbage cars, no wild motors, a couple of hippies, and lots of motivation.
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fiber optic
post Jul 26 2008, 08:32 AM
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The short block parts got here on Thursday. Much quicker than I was expecting them.


H-beam rods. 5.4" length with VW sized big end. With the 78.8mm stroke this will give me a rod ratio of 1.74 which should be good for my setup. Lots of good air velocity. They're called H-beam because if you were to look at the cross section it looks like the letter H. There are also I-beam rods but I think the H-beams are stronger.


Flywheel. I thought it was a 12.5 pound one but the box is marked as 14.5 Still lighter than stock and the extra 2 pounds might help dampen any harmonics traveling through the crank but still allow the motor to rev up a bit more freely. It's 8-doweled which refers to the holes drilled in it. Original VW flywheels only had 4 holes. If you look closely you might notice that the holes are not evenly spaced. It's done on purpose as the flywheel and crankshaft are balanced together and this ensures they get put back together properly.


Forged counter-weighted crankshaft. Stroke length is 78.8mm which is relatively mild for a VW motor. Original VW stroke length was 69mm and the largest that fits before extensive modification is required is 86mm. 78.8mm is also slighly longer than the stroke in a 5.0 Ford V8. biggrin.gif


The first step to assembly is getting the bearing and gears onto the new crankshaft. It will require heating up the camshaft drive gear to expand it and then putting it on.
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Bjorn
post Jul 26 2008, 11:16 AM
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Neat,

So...by having a longer stroke you're building an engine which will not rev super high, but will have more low end torque?
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fiber optic
post Jul 26 2008, 02:02 PM
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QUOTE(Bjorn @ Jul 26 2008, 02:16 PM) *
Neat,

So...by having a longer stroke you're building an engine which will not rev super high, but will have more low end torque?



It may still rev high (maybe 6000RPM?) and make power up in the higher range but low end torque is what I'm after.
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Bjorn
post Jul 26 2008, 07:31 PM
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This may be a noob question...but when you build an engine from scratch how do you determine the redline?
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fiber optic
post Jul 28 2008, 03:01 PM
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QUOTE(Bjorn @ Jul 26 2008, 10:31 PM) *
This may be a noob question...but when you build an engine from scratch how do you determine the redline?


It will have to be test run to see how all of the components interact with each other.





Here's some of today's work. 3 of the main bearings are installed so that they could be marked for proper orientation. If you look at the spot where I didn't put one in you can see a little dowel which aligns the bearings. The little hole that's at 7 o'clock to the dowel is the oil hole. The one that's left out is a split bearing so it's more difficult to make a mistake on.


Crankshaft again. As it turns out they're really dirty when they're new. I cleaned this thing for an hour but finally got it cleaned to my satisfaction.


I know this is a really crappy update. I spent the better part of the afternoon getting the motor stand drilled and mounting the case to it. I was hoping to get the gear set installed but that will happen tomorrow.
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goota
post Jul 28 2008, 08:42 PM
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if it has pictures of an engine it is an awesome update.
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Aircooled
post Aug 5 2008, 03:51 PM
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How comes along the engine?

I'll have to quote this...

QUOTE
May 13 2004, 08:51 PM Post #42
I had dual solex's on mine for a while (that was the first motor) and they were a nightmare. I think I'd probably do a 1776 or a 1641 with a single 40mm carb like one I had in high school. It was quick enough and lots of fun.

Almost makes me want to build another.
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fiber optic
post Aug 6 2008, 03:22 AM
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QUOTE(Aircooled @ Aug 5 2008, 06:51 PM) *
How comes along the engine?


I'm an idiot and really pissed at myself. I put in the pulley key in the crankshaft before I put the oil slinger on and now I can't get the key out. I've beaten the crap out of it and am very close to just saying forget it and buying a new shaft. head.gif head.gif head.gif head.gif head.gif
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fiber optic
post Aug 6 2008, 12:26 PM
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I'm ordering a new crankshaft this afternoon. I really really hate myself for burning the cash but I don't see another option. The old one may be salvageable but right now I don't like the looks of it. I definitely don't want to run it if it's even marginal only to have it die on me and screw the rest of the motor and be out money++.

Sorry for the lack of updates. I've been beating myself up over this for the past week while trying to make it work. I have very little patience and get frustrated easily. Had I been cool about it I may not have wrecked it. I really hate to learn lessons like this but maybe someone else can learn from my mistake.

Proper order for gear assembly onto a type 1 crankshaft.

1.) Number 3 bearing.
2.) Key for cam/distributor drive gears.
3.) Camshaft timing gear.
4.) Spacer.
5.) Distributor drive gear.
6.) Snap ring
7.) Oil slinger
8.) Pulley key.
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fiber optic
post Aug 15 2008, 02:11 PM
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About $100 worth of motor oil. 30 weight on the top with extra extra ZDDP for break-in and 10W-30 on the bottom with extra ZDDP for flat tappet camshaft use. And it really is green. Imagine a green slurpee from 7-11 and that's it or Ecto Cooler Hi-C if you ever had that. Not amber at all like every other oil I've ever used. 100% pure Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil. I'll try to get a pic of it, it's wild.


Friday's gear fry. This expands the gear so it fits over the crank. 100% pure soybean oil.


Installed. Also notice alignment hole in #3 bearing. Installed correctly with pin toward flywheel (front) side.
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